“In the beginning, nearly 14 billion years ago, all the space and all the matter and all the energy of the known universe was contained in a volume less than one trillionth the size of the period that ends this sentence.”

— Neil deGrasse Tyson in Astrophysics for People in a Hurry, opening p‘graph

Unsure? Test Tyson’s tale.

Try crushing a rock in one hand until it’s smaller than it is.

It should be easy; 99.99% of the rock is empty of matter.

Why doesn’t it crush?

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Yeah, the atoms there are like atoms elsewhere; electricity keeps their parts from crashing into each other or from whizzing off in all directions.

Space probes return evidence of electricity in space, and Bangers say it doesn’t do anything there.

I like your way of thinking, Bertold!

Yeah, Bert, you do have a way of thinking: religion equals science.

Et tu, Joan?

Tom, knock it off. In my opinion, you provoke aggression. You can tell your belief, and you can disagree with my belief, and throw the sarcasm in the trash where it belongs. To insinuate that I believe "religion equals science" is nonsense and you know it. 

Let me be very clear, I do not believe your concept of the origin of the universe.

I leave open a door to at least listen to what you offer and agree or disagree with you. 

religion ≉ science

religion = religion

science = science

Neither one benefit from the interaction.

Joan, you didn’t know Bert and I have for months alternatedly communicated and ragged each other.

He posted the nonsense “the virgin birth is questionable because there wasn't a big bang” and you, empathy blinding you to where you were going, stepped into the muck.

I asked “Et tu, Joan” and you are upset.

If you will delete your “I like....” post and the one above, I will delete mine corresponding to them

OK, Bertold, I don't believe you when you say religion + science + $5.65 will buy you a latté. I am confused enough using my own brain and I want to know what you think, without the response to Tom. Of course, $5.65 will get you a latté.

Give me the answer that you think about how the universe was created so that I can understand you, even if I may disagree with you. We all know who has the best brains around here and it is not me. 

People who believe in the virgin birth, and in the miracles, and the resurrection, and salvation simply believe in myths, fables, and the stories told by the ancients who attempted to understand their world. 

I don't share those beliefs; I see too much misery caused by people who believe in supernatural events to explain life. Even this week, supposedly a week of celebrating a myth, a fable, an ancient story people kill each other and destroy lives because they disagree. 

If there were a god, he/she/it would be teaching communication skills, conflict resolution, problem-solving skills. I would not have had to get all my training if such a god existed. 

"People Who Believe the Virgin Birth" and who "Believe Tyson’s Tale" deal with "Non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA)," "the view advocated by Stephen Jay Gould." "Science and religion each represent different areas of inquiry, fact vs. values." "There is a difference between the 'nets'[1] over which they have "a legitimate magisterium, or domain of teaching authority," and the two domains do not overlap."

Gould, Stephen Jay (2002). Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life. New York: Ballantine Books. ISBN 0-345-45040-X.

Actually i would imagine virgin birthers are hardcore fundamentalists and if they have even a dim bulb will realize it is not the account in genesis. So i don't think a majority will...

Cosmology is the creation of scientific mythology....overstated probably...but alice in wonderland here they come..

Big bang is headed for the trash heap of bad scientific notions. 

Frankie, I read several people who say  what you say, "Big bang headed for the trash heap of bad scientific notions." Can you give me a rationale for why you say that? 

I can believe the notion that something can come from nothing, as the Big Bang implies. I can imagine ways there can be no universe one second, and there can be one in an instant. Take, for example, the notion of branes*, of parallel universes, or of an explosion that produces some form of energy that can, over time, through magnetism or whatever, result in the stuff of making stars. Every time I see a video of an atomic bomb detonated, a tremendous cloud of energy results. Could that not be the same kind of action that would be an explosion that resulted in a matter with the potential of forming clouds, and stars, and planets, and moons? 

*In string theory and related theories such as supergravity theories, a brane is a physical object that generalizes the notion of a point particle to higher dimensions. Branes are dynamical objects which can propagate through spacetime according to the rules of quantum mechanics. They have mass and can have other attributes such as charge."

The Lobster Nebula, "The surrounding nebula, featured here, holds a complex tapestry of gas, dark dust, stars still forming, and newly born stars. The intricate patterns are caused by complex interactions between interstellar winds, radiation pressures, magnetic fields, and gravity."

I am not an astronomer, nor an electrical engineer, nor a physicist, nor an astrophysicist. I have my degrees in behavioral science which do not prepare me for debates on whether the Big Bang is ready for the dustbin. Furthermore, I do not think it is necessary for me to understand how the universe came into being. What does interest me is how I treat others and what I expect from others. I think regarding the philosophy of the bee: it goes from flower to flower to gather nourishment and in the process pollinates flora of all kinds that sexually reproduce. The bee does not wake up in the morning, rub his front arms together, and say, "I wonder why I have to collect pollen today." The bee does what a bee does, and in the process, we have blossoms of trees, fruits, vegetables, and grass made fertile. 

Joan i can't be particularly cogent on this topic. When I first heard the theory I thought it highly probable it would be discredited. The cosmos is so far beyond our Ken that we may never understand it. Perhaps when AI spawns super intelligence it will happen.

The big bang theory requires assumptions and that makes me dubious. If we are going to posit knowledge of ultimate causation we ought not have to create fiction to make it plausible. And while I like your analogy to the bomb ya have to concede that the universe has rather a barrel ass and is rotund in the extreme. Thus the small to big through physics stretches credulity.

Bert, I miss many words of pop songs and on 1/11 will be tested for a hearing aid.

I will ask the Internet for the text of zappa’s song. If I get it I will know what he’s saying and know whether to thank you or say s’thing else. (grin)

Bert, my lyrics. All it needs is music and two front teeth.

“His dad was a big city butcheri,

A Mom, Pop, and Kids place it was.

But the kid says he’ll keep on shovin’ 

More of that old Cosmic Debris

Way up those Bangers’ snouts.”




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