Debating a theist the existence of a god,

or debating a theist if their god is worth the devotion they give it?

I take a look around me and see the evil FAR outweighs the good.

So what's the point? They worship a god that let's people kill in it's name. They praise a god that allows the starvation and plague of entire countries while a few fly private jets smoking $100 cigars. They define themselves by a god that would let 99% of they living creatures become extict and the very atmosphere that keeps the remaining alive and comfortable is slowly being deteriorated. So even if he does exist, what makes them think he gives a sh*t?

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it's really not though. it's like trying to find the good in evil, the silver lining of a cloud, or beauty of death.
I know that it tends to piss them off more, when you debate morality. They have no concept of morality that's not forced at the barrel end of a gun.
I know it's sometimes annoying when people start to post song lyrics, but this really reminds me of a surprisingly deep popular NIN song.

What if this whole crusade's
A charade
And behind it all there's a price to be paid
For the blood
On which we dine
Justified in the name of the holy and the divine

Just how deep do you believe?
Will you bite the hand that feeds?
Will you chew until it bleeds?
Can you get up off your knees?
Are you brave enough to see?
Do you want to change it?

So naive
I keep holding on to what I want to believe
I can see
But I keep holding on and on and on and on

I can't say for sure what it's about, and didn't think about it too much until my sister mentioned something about the questions it brought up on whether--in existence or not-- God is really what they think he is.

What if God exists? He's all-powerful, but he's not the merciful, loving God they expect? How could you fight that? Would you try?
Wow. Beautifully put. That was exactly where I was going with this.

Their god's apathy (at best) deems their god unworthy of devoting the only life i know to have to it's will.

Exist or not, it's not your friend.
Hee. I said something beautiful. :D

I completely agree with this idea. God has done some irredeemable things in the bible-- part of the reason we're all here on Atheist Nexus. If morality really exists, how is it defined? The Bible has been written with very old, old values (not a coincidence) when any omniscient being would know the way times change.

Modern Jews and Gentiles have morals that have deviated from typical Bible rule, even though they claim to be believers. So morality is changing, which means that to humans it's simply relative. However, I can't see any "God" changing his mind on ethics. He's all-knowing, ne? So firstly, if a God were to exist, whatever he thought on morality would have to go. We, even as a religious society, have rejected those rules all the same. One of the very most simple things that almost any given Atheist knows: God condones slave-trade, subservient wives, and condemnation of other races, when as a modern society we condemn each and every one of those things.

There are some exceptionally religious people who also have exceptional morals. Which would crack first?
I agree with you absolutely. The acts by god 'recorded' in the bible are evil.

The issue I have, which helped me understand why I could even believe in a god that was not associated with any religion or scripture, is what I see around me today.


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