So what would it take to convince you there was a god?
This subject has come up before, and while not proof of an omnipotent deity, I offer the following:
If you find the King James Bible encoded in some naturally occurring organism's unused DNA, that would be a pretty good argument.
You would need to show it's extremely unlikely that a code could be found such that natural DNA would decode to the KJ Bible, unless it were intentionally put there.
It's very unlikely that having the KJ Bible encoded in a creature's DNA would be an evolutionary advantage. So I would tend to think, something intelligent had to put it there.
This wouldn't be proof of God - but rather of powerful intervention by an intelligence that we don't know anything of.
It's also possible to imagine a creature that would be extremely unlikely to have evolved by natural selection.
Creationists are always coming up with things they think are examples of this, but aren't really.
Perhaps, a fluorescent bulb like what you can buy at the hardware store, would be an example. With some weird phosphor that has no other known use. Inside a glass shell with vacuum, supplied with electric power.
Or a nuclear-powered creature.
There's an important difference between the mere existence of a god, and the existence of a god that materially affects the world in such a way that complying with its wishes and praying to it makes a difference.
OK, what would be proof of a deist God?
One could imagine a situation where physics proves there must have been some outside intervention creating the universe. For example, if the universe was shown to have come "from nothing" - nothing at all, where not even space and time existed - maybe that could be shown to require outside intervention.
But of course, if the universe comes from God, it does not come from nothing!
The fine-tuning argument for the existence of God would look a lot better if one could prove somehow that a multitude of possibilities for universes could not exist.
But those aren't concrete proofs, because we have no such physics that argues against a multiverse, or that shows the universe popped into existence from nowhere and nothing.
One can certainly imagine proof of paranormal abilities, or a real verifiable miracle. That would mean that reality is radically different from the current scientific understanding, but it wouldn't be proof of a divine entity. Even if prayer could be shown to work, it could mean that humans had previously unknown powers, rather than the existence of God.
After years of being a theist,though not a strong believer, and being disappointed so many times in explanations that made no sense...I doubt at this point in my life that I could be convinced that there is a god....I have been given explanations from members of this website that there may be a god, but they were not very convincing and makes me wonder how they can call themselves Atheists......Anyone who follows science knows that a god did not create the universe.....The big bang theory can be proven ..all living things came from atoms and cells made up of the chemicals in the atmosphere C,N,O2, H....it took millions if not billions of years, which kills the fable in the bible that Earth is 6000 years old.........just saying....
I have a lot of trouble with this one because of the ideas people come up with. What does a KJV bible have to do with anything? Could it be any other translation, or even other writings like the Koran or the Vedas? The simple facts are "you cannot prove god with ancient writings." Think on that for a moment. It means that we have zero evidence that any god or gods is trying to communicate with us. That includes Ra, Thor, Zeus, Jehovah or Yahwey, and an endless list of others. If god isn't trying to talk to you it would mean he most likely doesn't exist, or he doesn't care if you exist. To declare absolutely that there is no god puts the burden of proof on you but the possibility is so minutely small. Christians make the claim for a god, and they do so with no evidence, so let the burden of proof be upon them. To me, no sacred writing proof = no god. That should end it but people just go on and on.
DNA and a coded set of instructions within it are proof of god to many, but this is also no proof. I'm sure DNA has existed way before we "discovered" it in the 1800's but using it to solve crime, etc. didn't come full swing until about the 1980's. This makes the almighty god next to impotent from earliest times until most recent times when he "proved his existence" through humankind discovering DNA. Doesn't make sense, does it? This idea is wanting to put a "goddidit" into science and that won't work.
People keep claiming they have a hole in their hearts and it can only be filled by god, and that god watches everything, including you when you take a crap. That idea doesn't thrill me. Anyone ever had or seen an ant farm? People use that idea for us and god. They just don't give up. They have to know it all and cannot be happy admitting we do not know it all. What does god have in store for me, they ask? Why would I ask that question unless somewhere in my mind there was a belief in god hidden there? How did it get there? Maybe because others told you about god long before you could think or reason.
What would be an ultimate proof of god? If he was everything he was cracked up to be he could have spoken to all of us at some given time, doing it instantly and simultaneously all over the world. He would tell us what he wanted and expected, and he would then check back with us every few years and renew his message. That way all of the religions we have now would not exist. We would all be one and we would know our purpose, working towards a goal.
Instead we see that god has no influence whatsoever on this world or anyone in it. Crime, rape, murder, war, starvation, cancer, disease, children with cancer, poverty, injustice. The list goes on and the prayers do nothing. If god speaks to anyone it's to show that he needs more paino players or a bigger church, etc.
It really looks like there is no proof of god. Let's just nail it here. It looks like man invented his god. Look back at all the failed gods and a similar message. I would think that goes a long way in proving no god.
I could not have said it better Michael...I totally agree...
you cannot prove god with ancient writings.
Suppose the ancient writings appear in the DNA of a naturally occurring creature? How would that happen without miraculous intervention?
That will not happen, Luara, except in a science fiction movie. Which set of ancient writings are going to appear? Those of the Abrahamic religions or something else? Maybe writings about Ra, Thor, or Odin? Something channeled "from the other side" or writings of the Vedas?
The fact that most people in our world really believe you can prove god through ancient writings, therefore proving one true religion, is what the whole problem is! This is why we had 9/11 and other suicide crap is going on today. It's about knowing all and being right. It is also myth and superstition involving imaginary beings.
There is no miraculous intervention.
That will not happen, Luara, except in a science fiction movie.
Of course not. I was asking what event, however fantastic, would be convincing proof of the existence of god(s).
If there were a good argument for the existence of God, I suppose we wouldn't be on this website, being more or less reasonable people.
It would be like being a nonbeliever in dogs.
The unfortunate thing is that there is no good arguement for the existence of god. Having "god" drilled into our heads from the time we can walk causes us all to think without logic. God comes out of your teachings from a "holy book" and once one has proven the holy book to be just myth and superstition, the clamor for existence of a god goes on and on. Why do we do this? Why do they not stop?
Let's suppose we are an ant farm. Let's suppose god exists outside of time and matter. Let's suppose 2=2+5. Let's suppose god is an alien. (Is he an alien with documentation?)
God could prove himself by revelation to everyone once they become a certain age. You would instantly know all about everything and what you are supposed to do. This never happens. What does happen is that your parents start drilling you full of god belief by the time you can walk. It's a very poor substitute.
You cannot prove god. It logicly follows that you cannot disprove god. What you can prove is that god does not do anything in any way involving interaction with human or animal. Therefore, god does not care, or he does not exist.
What you can prove is that god does not do anything in any way involving interaction with human or animal.
How would you prove that?
Our universe, our solar system and planet, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology... beyond a reasonable doubt, all look exactly as we'd expect them to without a god that interacts with humans or animals.
Victor Stenger, God: The Failed Hypothesis: how science shows that God does not exist