If you can't do certain aspects of a job, because of your religion, should you have the job?  Selling alchohol specifically.  If you will sale anything else but have to call a manager to ring alcoholic beverages should you work at that job or should you not?

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Oh, but THESE people want to LIVE THEIR FAITH!  Some of them actually think they ARE their faith, and are incapable of separating themselves from their beliefs.  Therefore, anything that intrudes onto them which is not consonant with their belief system needs to be utterly and completely rejected.  I mean talk about your solipsistic, arrogant egotists!

Of course, these are also frequently people who live in a christian bubble, who either have never met a Jew or a Muslim and certainly not an atheist, and who naturally (to them!) think that the US is a christian nation, because that's all they see!

These are the people who, as the saying goes, "need to get out more" ... not that they will.

In some grocery stores, the clerks are too young to sell alcohol, so they have to have someone else do that.

If someone cant sell alcohol for religious reasons, it does seem like they are in the wrong job. One could also say that about pharmacists who refuse to sell birth control.

Because of religion does that clerk also refuse to sell magazines that glorify adultery, fornication, and other sins? Like, pregnant, not yet divorced Kim and Kayne, still not married and now with baby West, in People and Us?

I used to be very vocal about religion (and atheism) in the workplace, but usually only if someone else brought it up. I'm still believing this had a factor in my being fired last June after 18 years at this factory.

For another look at this idea in answering your post, Penn Jillette says that a pharmacist who does not want to sell birth control or the morning after pill, and does this for religious reasons, is within his rights if the pharmacy is privately owned and takes no federal money. Large chain pharmacies taking federal money for any reason would have to instruct the pharmacist to sell the products if he wants to keep his job.

On the funny side of alcohol sales, I'm checking out at Walmart and see this sign by the clerk saying she cannot sell alcohol. She must have a CMA to sell alcohol. At that point you start feeling sorry for her. It makes you want to tell all those around you "come on let's chip in and buy this poor girl a CMA!" Maybe you think that is a card that she needs to be certified or something.

The real truth if you see that sign is that you simply go to another line with your alcohol.

Sorry to hear you were fired Dennis.  

One thing I discovered about being harassed in the workplace, which also applies to being fired - nobody is compelled to tell the truth about whey they did it.  They don't have to say "I fired you because..." and be honest about it.  In fact, if they tell  the truth, they might get sued.  I also experienced that with being harassed.   Nobody says "I'm harassing you because...."   - they are too smart for that.

What Penn Jillette says...  I don't know.  If it was the only pharmacy that someone could reasonably get to, such as in a small town, it might be different.  I guess there is internet order or mail order,  but that takes time.  Morning after pill...  might be too late.

I suspect all pharmacies take federal money.  How could they not?  Medicare, medicaid, that's a big chunk of medications.

Daniel, even now I get flack on that firing. People do not understand how I was set up to never get another job again, and set up at the same time to never draw unemployment. My tormentor threw me out the door because he thought he was the smarter man. I crashed a robot and after 18 years was fired for it. Great danger was presented here and I was the cause of it, he said. The simple solution was to reset the robot. That's what they always do. No danger was ever present.

I immediately went into security work because I went to school with the man that owns the business. The work is seasonal so I'm laid off now until April. Even though I have social security I'm now drawing unemployment on that factory that fired me. They do not like it but it is the law. Screw them. One reason I can do this is that I never did stop working. I'm also ex military and have a few smarts. I'm administrative enough to have done all my wife's immigration papers.

Many people in todays work force are just like me.

There is also the issue of age.  Employers seem to take a special sadistic pleasure in demeaning and firing older workers, even when it's been shown that older workers can be among the most productive and reliable.  

I don't know if I will make it.  I keep my nose clean, watch my words, avoid politics, try to be the good employee but not the best, or 2nd best.  Maybe 3rd best.  Because if you are the best, people gang up on you, set you up for failure, take advantage, and relish your downfall.   I try to fly under the radar.   I'm nice to everyone, although that didn't stop them from harassing me before.   I also don't talk about characteristics of mine that lead others to gang up, such as the religion / atheism issue.  

Since I need to continue working for health insurance / cancer treatment, even more than for the income,  I avoid the risks.  I still might not make it, but I am trying very hard.

Hang in there, Daniel. I'm 67 and was still working when many in my factory thought I should be out the door. I guess it pissed them off finding I had benefits at 65 (along with wages) that they didn't have. How could I dare do this to them? My workplace was really a Peyton Place just like the novel.

Nobody really likes you in a factory, they all talk things A to Z and are often 2 faced, but I was a bit strong on my atheism.

The man that fired me most likely did it because of my age, plus he knew my skills, and the fact that I was not afraid of him at all. I had even told him I was not afraid of him.

He is very lucky that I am not 20 years old.

Patricia, not that bad all day / every day, and there are some good people there. Meetings are the most important time.  I do have to watch what I say, and edit myself.  I used to asked people at meetings to jab a pencil point into my hand if it looked like I would speak up, so I don't get into trouble.  No one did that of course. 

Reading this book - The Survivor Personality - made a big difference for me.  I still go back and reread for refreshers.

There is a hypocrisy to people not performing legal tasks on the grounds of their beliefs. They are playing a version of heads I win, tails you lose. They are asking for accommodation to not have their beliefs be a factor in their being hired. They then want respect for their beliefs in the right to refuse accommodating others. Either the beliefs are a separate issue from the job, or they are not. There needs to be a consistent separation. The employer AND the employee need to consistently separate the factors of personal belief and work. 

This reminds me of a difficulty I have with affirmative action. I fully support eliminating race, gender and sexual orientation from the hiring process. To then re-introduce these traits into the hiring process seems like playing heads I win, tales you lose. A necessary characteristic of a truth is its immutability. If something is intrinsically true, it should be true in all places and at all times. 

If separation of belief and employment is a virtue our society accepts, it should work both ways. If you are required to sell alcohol as part of your job, no one is asking to drink it. What job would require you to drink alcohol? I think that would be illegal. Serving alcohol would show an employee's willingness to accommodate a customers right to live according to their beliefs. This would be an example of mutual respect for each others autonomy. To not extend an equal degree of accommodation for other's right to live according to different beliefs is the height of hypocrisy from those who demand so much accommodation.


What Melinda said!!!!

Amen!! ("Hear, hear!") Many jobs require serving the public -- all of the public, not just those who share your beliefs.

My religion says I get to take a nap in the afternoon.  It's the religion of Curmudgeonism.

It also says I get to mumble vaguely offensive things under my breath and when people say "what"? I can say "nothin.  I didn't say nothin."




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