The original thread is gone. That would be my bad.

Here's what happened, told in my usual verbose parenthetical style. If you just want to get on with it, skip past the italics.

I originally registered for Atheist Nexus last Sunday after listening to a Chariots of Iron podcast where AN was mentioned, while on a bus from Wilmington NC to Washington DC following the Christmas holiday. Since I was using my Motorola Droid (which is cooler than shit, by the way) I actually registered on the bus using this hand-held computer, browser and Twittering system with GPS cabability with which, I'm told, you can also make phone calls with.

I have two Gmail accounts, one using my given name which syncs directly with Google Calendar and Google Docs and I use mostly for work, family and my capacity as director of the National Association of Hen Teasers (I can get a chicken from head-under-wing asleep to apoplectic in 30 seconds, but anyway...) and the other is associated with my site and the nom de guerre "Mykeru" (which is a story in itself). Being too lazy to switch accounts, I registered using the email for my given name and thought that I could fill in the pseudonym later. Which I did. What I didn't realize was that the underlying architecture of Atheist Nexus was a tool of Satan and used my initial registration to create a URL using my given name.

Now, keep in mind that I'm an atheist, a recovered alcoholic and an incorrigible asshole who tends to overshare anyway, so although I can't keep everything separate, I try not to make things easy for fuck nozzles who use Google as the groundwork for being complete assholes. Seriously, once I had right-wing nutbags get my name from the domain information on my site, when it was poorly protected by RCN and cause all sorts of mischief. I since changed from HTML to WordPress and moved the whole operation to Laughing Squid, who not only protect anonymity better, but just love a good bogus DMCA notice that they can chew up and spit back into some lawyers face.

Plus, and this is important, by using the Mykeru brand name, I can be even more of a pain in the ass than I already am.

I'm about to reboot my site and I would like to have the ability to link to my page on AN without giving the whole game away. I tried to change the URL in the settings, no good. I changed the email, but still the URL held my name. I sent a couple "issue" reports to AN, but no response.

I was spending more time trying to deal with this dumb quirk "through channels" than it really deserved in terms of redoing my profile. So before I added too much content I decided to just delete my registration and re-register making sure that the mark of quality that is "Mykeru" was used. I figured I would have to redo my profile, add my picture again and make friends all over again.
I didn't. Miraculously, when the re-register was approved, the page came back with all settings, links and what have you intact.

However, and I didn't expect this: The fucking thread "Religion vs. Spirituality" was gone. Just gone. I thought maybe, if anything, my remarks might disappear, making it sort of one-sided, but the entire thing was gone.

So, for everyone who contributed to that thread, offered their thoughts and opinions, whether they were really stupid or not, I apologize profusely. Although I don't have a problem with my writing in that thread being deleted, there is no way that I intended the same for everyone else who contributed.

I fully accept whatever punishment is coming to me, especially if you are anything from a 20-something girl to a cougar in the metro Washington DC area with an extensive latex wardrobe and really like horned guys with creepy lemur eyes.

So, where were we? The thread began relating religion to spirituality and degenerated into an exercise in lexicography and Howard's fuck-all worthless opinion.

So, taking it from there:

1. Does the term "spiritual" necessarily involve the supernatural? I claim it does and people who use it in any other way are just too lazy to use a dictionary. Is using the term for the non-supernatural just sloppy language? Is using it aiding and abetting the religious by at the very least seeming to be fellow travellers?

2. Can one be an atheist and not be a skeptic towards the supernatural? This is the reverse of the case I hear reported at the last The Amazing Meeting (TAM) where Matt Dillahunty of The Atheist Experience recounts that the "skeptics" in attendance were told to lay off those skeptics who were also theists. I can't disagree more with that, and think those kid gloves represents another example of religion getting a pass. But is the reverse true: Can one be a critical atheist, whose lack of belief is derived from rational grounds and not also be a skeptic when it comes to the "spiritual"?

3. Is Atheist Nexus' underlying architecture a tool of Satan?

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I don't have a problem with the definition of atheism being narrow. It has to be. As it is we have religious apologists trying to tack on all sorts of stigma including nihilism and cynicism. Not to mention the canard that "atheism is a religion" by people who are so unimaginative that they believe any position in opposition to theirs must be a mirror image.

It's just that I'd assume that the same sort of thought processes that would lead someone to atheism would lead them to rejecting evidence of the supernatural as unconvincing. Perhaps, given the definition of atheism as a "what" (lacking belief) without a "how", that's assuming too much.

It's just the number of atheists willing to kick around the term "spiritual" with an almost religious disregard for use of language troubles me. An atheist starting with "well, what spiritual means to me" for no other reason than to prop up the word spiritual itself, isn't that far removed from people willing to use any indifferentialism to prop up the term "God".
Ahhh. That explains it. I was wondering what happened to that thread- it was pretty entertaining.

So I'll jump in and see if part 2 will continue to be as interesting as part 1 (hopefully Howard will come in and remind everyone that spirituality is the result of good jazz music and pretty scenery- then you can break out your Jello-O retort again)

1. Without getting into the definition and linguistic battle again, I think we all agree that the general consensus would be that the term spiritual involves the supernatural. You can hide supernatural with self-transcendent- but it’s just supernatural. Therefore, the terms spiritual and religious are close enough at their core to both be based on horse shit, pie in the sky, unjustifiable, flying spaghetti monsters.

2. I think all of the reasons we have for being atheist would have to apply to anything supernatural. Skeptical for sure. I'd love to hear an atheist explain how they’re not skeptical of the existence of anything supernatural. How could you not be skeptical about anything that cannot be falsified?

3. I'm still learning how to type...I have no idea what the underlying architecture is of the A/N site- but, being an atheist, I'm pretty skeptical that it is the tool of a devil or demon of any kind.
Fred i think your doing that swede thing again Atheist is not a subest in the nonbeleiver broad term its reverse Atheism is the broad term and non beleiver the subset. Atheism includes any religions that do not beleive in a God. Buddhists would techincally be an atheistic religion becuase there is no god just a way fo life and an attempt at reaching superior level of life, even including after life and all theories of Nirvana dont exclude them from the term atheism. Atheism as a term dates back for enough thats it really is a generalization of basic religious formats Atheist - No God Beleif, MonoTheist- one god beleif, Poly theist- many god beleif, and pantheist- all things are god beleif is how i have always been tought the catagories of religions with each one having subsets and groups that fall in those catagories some related and some completely unrelated to each other. This choice of defining atheism other wise to me is alot similar to Spirituality except more have grabbed onto this redifined atheism well others are stil holding onto the original intent of the catagory. it's like the reverse more have moved on with the word Atheism to this new definition but the fact that those who still reconise it the other way being around makes it still and abuse of the word to say it excludes the woo-woos who have bein considered atheistic faiths or religions for over 1000 years.
Well, maybe AN has that thread still laying around, still on the server but stripped of a content ID.

1. Assuming we can agree, and the late great thread proved we can't, what is the appeal for "spiritual". Like I said, it seems to be an adjective used by people for whom reality isn't good enough.

2. See, that puzzles the crap out of me. I would assume that atheists would be skeptics for exactly the same reason they are atheists. Because once you let in the lies, distortions, incestuous research and crap reasoning that allows people to believe in the Bermuda Triangle, for instance, you're really got no leg to stand on rejecting apologetics.

3. It's a content management system, based on Ning, that allows users to add content. I'm just surprised that my de-registering and re-registering would cause everyone else's post to be deleted. What sense does that make to allow the thread starter to do that? What if someone starts a thread, gets trounced and goes straight for the sour grapes? Really, there are just some things, like Windows Vista, that come straight from Lucifer's butt-hole.
You're right...I think the appeal for using "spiritual" is just because some people think they need to describe something greater than 'Awe" and just can't come up with a better word- so they hijack a word like spiritual and use it out of context.

I'm going to conduct a census tonight. I will have 9 of my family members over for some home made, wood fired oven pizza to usher in the new year (built it myself...check it out and everyone of them are christians. My older brother has gone away from organized christianity and is now calling himself spiritual. So I'll ask everyone to tell me what it means to be spiritual and see what kind of answers I get....I'm sure they'll all say the same basic thing and use words like "God", "higher power" and "supernatural". I know we have a few stragglers here that don't agree on what the word means, but it doesn't mean that the real definition isn't known or assumed by everyone else.
Having words mean whatever you want them to mean confuses people and will never allow for people to agree on anything, though. I used to think the exact same way as you, but then again I probably still would if I were a Swede. :D My buddy Perry is a swede and he has the same attitude. Damn you and your much, much more secularized country!!!!!!
a bit off the original topic....but relevant to your re-post you make a good point about anonymity has occurred to me, since I signed up under my real name, that I may be vulnerable to google searches. What do you all think? I do notice a lot of you have nom de plumes...
My wife is a teacher at a Christian school (where both my children attend) and while I'm sure I'm on the top of the teacher's prayer list at their devotional meetings, I certainly don't want any of her students to stuble accross my name on an atheist site (I have a very unusual name). It could make her more uncomfortable than she already is.
It means "restored"
Vulnerable to Google Searches?

Kim Jennings's Page - Atheist Nexus
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Kim Jennings's Page on Atheist Nexus. ... Latest Activity. Kim Jennings added 3 photos. 39 minutes ago. Kim Jennings is now a member of Atheist Nexus ...

It's a quandry. I don't use a pseudonym because I'm an atheist so much as because I make reference to my left-wing politics and have incurred the wrath of right-wingers who are simply bat-shit crazy and teabaggers before teabagging was cool. I also make reference to my forays in the recovery movement, and that part of my life is simply not the business of a casual observer.

As far as being an atheist, I'm out, I'm proud, but let's face it, there are still laws on the books that prevent people from holding elected office on that alone. I can see how atheism would play into someone's job, child custody and other aspects of their life because of the irreducible fucknuttery of some theists.
oh christ...I mean, oh fudge...guess I'd better go under cover. Will re-emerge as 'thedogma" or mykarmaisdogma...

now, how do I go about this agian? leave and re-sign up with the pseudonym, yes?
you know what I did? I went to be my settings page, changed my name and my url and that's knew me when I came back. easy peasy.

Voila...the dogma!




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