A page on Facebook posted a link to this photo today:
Naturally, a little argument ensued. People were complaining about how Jesus was shown here (obviously), and other people fired back that it was true, etc. you know the drill. Anyway, someone said they were getting tired of seeing "atheist shit" on the page, and asked what was wrong if you just believe in God, and you're not using it for money or power, or whatever. I told him and anyone else listening that since the religious get to post things about what they believe and how they think, then nonbelievers should have the right to express their thoughts as well. Another person came in and told me that this was not an opinion, this was simply trolling, and if he insulted my beliefs I'd get mad. I told him it really should not be a big deal.
I come back an hour or so later and a few more people have responded. The previous person posted as well. He said, "But it's really offensive saying that someone important to someone's faith is a myth. I hear atheists and agnostics talk about how Christians should be more tolerant of other people's beliefs, but when it comes to our beliefs, they're usually very intolerant. If I even mention how I believe homosexuality is a choice and how I believe it's wrong, they start cursing at me and calling me bigoted."
Now, I am quite through dealing with the people on that thread, as they will only drive me insane. But how could I explain? Christians hate on atheists and other beliefs quite often. They still ask that we respect them, but how? How can someone expect me to respect their disrespect?
According to Lisa (click here), kids are innocent and are being abused when xtians indoctrinate them. I agree.
So, Charles, would you say when the xtian is no longer a child, he/she should be able to reason their way out of the conditioning they receive each week, and in some cases, all through the week?
Think about it, the pressure is so great to be a xtian, even Atheists hide what they believe for fear of the consequences.
So can you really blame them for fearing what you yourself fear? On top of the fear, they also have been conditioned to believe lies. Is it their fault? Or the religious leaders' fault?
According to Dan Dennett, he knows some xtian leaders who have come out of their xtain education not believing any more, but they continue to lead congregations because they fear the consequences.
Not everyone is as brave as you are Charles. Can you hold that against them?
Cane.......Some people are on the evolutionary cusp...............Their minds have a higher state of Logic and reason.....There have been people like this down through the ages. We now recognize their names, Galileo for example. These type of people are immune to religion.
I don't put myself in the same class as Galileo, but for the first seven years of my schooling I went to catholic school while attending Sunday school at the Baptists Church every Sunday. Also my maternal grandmother was a extreme xtian who spoke in tongues, I cared for her a great deal and had to tolerate her beliefs and constant preaching.
Now this alone should have made me a likely candidate for a true believer. Instead I instinctively knew it was bullshit form the get go. How does one explain this except I am on the Evolutionary cusp of Logic development.
I think that most church leaders know its bullshit, but it gives them an easy way to make a living and power along with the prestige of being who they pretend to be. Most people in the Christian Church that are educated realize that it is important for career and community.
Being angry is an important motivator for any social change group, it was recognized by Gandhi and MLK in their respective writings.
You say not to hate the Xtians, I say it is important to be angry with them to further the goals of militant atheism. No dialog is needed only confrontation.
When we are winning, the voices come out to moderate our stand, this would be marginalizing ourselves.
It would be foolhardy to retreat now, when the numbers are turning dramatically in our favor.
So I know first hand about religion and despise them all.
You see, I say hate the religion, be angry with religion because it makes people do things they otherwise wouldn't do.
I say hate the religious leaders because they know what they are doing, but their followers don't.
Those educated people in the church have a choice (if you can really call it a choice), to go along or not. If they don't then the rest will do things to them that we ourselves fear. I hate with a passion what they do, what they believe, and I hate with a passion the priests who know what they are doing and do it anyways. The leaders don't have the pressure to be a leader. They could be followers too, but they choose to fool the followers. They choose to make the followers believe that anyone who does not believe are evil. They should be the target of our hate and anger.
Don't hate the xtian, hate the religion and its leaders!
I DO NOT WANT TO DIMINISH OUR ANGER. I want to channel it where it will do the most good.
Cane....Your comment below is that of an appeaser. Just when we are advancing our agenda and numbers you want to back off.
Social Groups advocating change go through stages, stage one, they are ignored, stage two, they are ridiculed. Stage three, they are demonized. Stage Four, they try to marginalize the group through appeasement( Lets all be friends), because they are becoming effective and the powers feel threatened.
OWS is at stage four now and the appeasers are coming out of the wood work.
Please lets open a dialog, don't hate us etc.
I say stay the course we are winning.
Cane..When they find the body its not known why they where killed.
Well, my friend Charles, the TV show CSI says that they always find the reason for the murder.
But I bet that the truth is that in some of the cases where bodies were found, they did not know why they were killed.
But that wasn't your point was it? It was to say something like, you better fear the Christians because you may get killed and there will never be justice in regards to your death.
Am I right?
Cane...Unless your murder was a high profile case, then that premise is correct.
In case you haven't seen it yet. anger
The whole bible is nothing but an "us against them" trope. It's all about god "choosing" special people or groups of people and ordering them to rail against, drive out, or annihilate others. It promises rewards for those who "hate" their friends, families, ethnic groups and countries in order to follow its teachings. It is an exercise in black/white thinking - no shades of gray allowed. Men are superior to women, dark-skinned people are inferior to lighter-skinned people, believers are saved, non-believers are damned. Associating with those who are different from you in any way somehow "pollutes" you. It's Dr. Seuss's story about the star-bellied sneeches on a grand scale. It's knee-jerk reaction as opposed to deep critical thinking.
It's my opinion that respect is earned. Beliefs inform action. It is almost impossible to really believe something and not order your life around that belief in some way. Ignorant, superstitious beliefs not only harm those who hold them, they have the potential to harm all those who must interact with the persons holding them. I've never yet met a dedicated theist who could keep it to themselves, and I do not respect anyone who thinks they are compelled by a supernatural being to tell me what to do. This does not mean I "hate" that person - but I am perfectly capable of hating his or her ignorant beliefs.
I agree. I only wish more non-theists would make the distinction that you don't "hate" the religious person, but you hate their beliefs, i.e. religion itself.
Many people feel that the religious person themselves are at fault for their beliefs. That they have a conscious power to denounce religion.
I disagree with those people.
Cane..Religious belief is Voluntary Ignorance.
Hey Charles, I hope you don't mind my finishing your thought above:
That's why we should hate the Chrisitian as well as Chrisitianity.
Am I right?