In the entire history of the human race and the many Gods that they have conceived and closely examined over considerable periods of time, most to the point of religious obsession, no evidence has EVER been discovered to prove that any one of those Gods is a true God.

Since it is logically impossible that all these different Gods with their contradictory beliefs can simultaneously be true, then most must be "false".

So is any one God more provable than any other? The historical answer to that is a resounding NO, were that not so we would all worship the true provable God, including me.

So every conceivable God is equally un-provable, and there are 1,000's of them including Christianity's major God and its many minor ones.

For the sake of argument lets assume that there are a 1,000 Gods conceived since the dawn of mankind, and each one is equally un- provable, then Christianity's God is only 1 in a 1,000

Those figures would also indicate, that even should a God exist, which, given the time and manpower expended fruitlessly in such searching, is itself a chance in a million.

So Christianity as a religion only has a 1 in a 1,000 of 1 in a 1,000,000 of having the right God, too long odds, even for Pascal's Wager.

So this logic dictates that God, certainly as envisaged by mankind, does not exist.

And even should he exist, it would be impossible for us to visualise him, after all he would be GOD and for us to have any real concept of him would make us minor Gods, which clearly we are not.

If he does not exist then it’s even more impossible for us to visualise him as he does not exist.

So in either case man can never have any concept of God that relates to any sort of reality.

That said, and generally speaking, the believer is actually believing in something that is NOT GOD, and therefore does not exist, so he is wrong on all counts.

The non believer is not believing in something that is NOT GOD and where he may be right not to believe, he is wrong in what he is not believing in.

While the Agnostic awaits proof of something that is NOT GOD and does not exist so could never be proven either way, so he is also wrong awaiting proof of the un-provable.

As most agnostics, believers and non believers seem to be believing, disbelieving or doubting in the WRONG God, then none of them can ever hope to be right.

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I understand and forgive my stupidity but I can't actually see the example of which you speak.

However I have no wish to alienate any potential allies, especially those who may be "on my side" as that's a position I sometimes find even myself not on, and I then need all the help I can get.
I don't believe in anything that is a god-concept.
I accept the existence of the God concept, like religion I don't like it but I accept its a reality, its God who's existence I don't accept.
Question, do you have any concept of the God you don't believe in ? can you describe him/her ?

Is this the same Darwin who also said it is "absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist" and later "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.” It would appear that we would have to pick through his saying carefully.

Try this one :- "Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled" Michael Crichton (1942 - 2008)
Agnostics don't await proof; they believe that the proposition is, to use the mathematical term, undecidable.
I would have thought that having decided that it was "undecidable" they had then reached a firm conclusion and could no longer be undecided. Clearly, if it was "undecidable" they must have ruled out the possibility of the existence of God, because if God did exist he could appear at any time and "decide" it. So the next step from there, knowing that the matter could NEVER be decided, and God did not exist, would be to admit to being atheists.

So all agnostics are actually atheists but don't know it.




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