The Westinghouse Network reporter who got the "pool" assignment on November 22, 1963 when the motorcade in Dallas passed in front of the Texas School Book Depository said in an interview with Andrea Mitchell that he was in a vehicle some eight car lengths from Kennedy's open limo and distinctly heard three shots from the window where Oswald is alleged to have fired the bullet that killed the president. When the reporter joined others at Parkland Hospital a short while later, he ran into the priest who administered the last rites to the Roman Catholic president, asking him if the chief executive was deceased. The priest is reported as saying, "He's dead all right, I administered the last rites." Then, the priest added: "I don't think the soul has left the body."
All religions work this magic on their faithful, that they believe in something called a "soul." (Buddhism is dependent upon a form of reincarnation, but only of personality traits, or skandas, of the prior lifetime, departing from Hindu teachings about an immortal soul only in technicalities.) Such dogma is central to religious faith. Non-believers wonder, exactly where does this "soul" reside? Is it an organ in the body or something in the mind? Can it be quantitatively measured? How do we know it exists at all?
Of course, we don't, and there lies the problem. What is the point of "administering the last rites"? Is it to guarantee the person's passage into so-called "eternal life"? What exactly is "eternal life"? The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out; the worms play pinochle on your snout. Is JFK in Hell, Purgatory, or Heaven? Where are these places? Like all religions, Roman Catholicism begs more questions than it answers, and no one can answer with anything rational or scientific. And answers not based on reason are no answers at all. If JFK was dead by the time the priest arrived, what good does it do him to read the last rights?
I was never Catholic but I can take a stab at this one.
Catholics seem to believe that we need a priest to do anything with god. For many years you did not have a "bible" or could not read one. You had to rely on the priest even if he spoke Latin and you didn't know a word of it. Today it's all English (at least in America) but the priest was needed to "pray" people out of purgatory (that made a lot of money) and he was needed to pray and help guarantee the passage of the soul to heaven at the time of death. Survivors have well supported the church over the centuries, as we well know. Today it is very rich.
Now we get into this "soul" part. Early man had trouble distinguishing that his waking self was the same as his sleeping self. The sleeping self (in dreams) seemed to produce certain "magic." This was the birth of dualism, changed much today from then, but out of it all came gods, demons, the afterlife, and any other superstition you could think of.
Moving on now to the priest who administered the last rites on JFK, it is possible that the remarks he made that day about the "soul not having left the body" came from noticed signs of some sort even though the body was clinically dead. A movement, a twitching, or even warmth, etc. We will never really know. Look how long they let this man lay on a stretcher or table with his brains blown out and nobody knew what to do. There was nothing anyone could do.
Where is JFK today? Most of him is in his grave. Some parts like the brain disappeared. A few fragments of skull are missing, and some say the skull itself was not buried there. Wherever they are, if this is all true, it has only fueled the conspiracy theories. Does JFK have eternal life? It appears so, but not in the religious sense.
Even for other questions like "where is heaven?" Imagine that the earth is a sphere and people live all over it's surface. They are told that heaven is "up in the sky" so they all point to heaven. Imagine earth again as a sphere and ask yourself "where is heaven?" Bronze Age technology cannot hold up. Ancient superstition is destroyed, but only for those who are honest with themselves.
There you state, "Does JFK have eternal life? It appears so, but not in the religious sense," which suggests one of the bees in my bonnet when I decided I was a non-believer after some 60 years of gullibility. I stumbled upon mention of Euhemerus, an ancient Greek who wrote about his "Voyage to Panchaea." The latter was a mythical island -- remember, most of the world was unexplored and therefore unknown way back then -- where temples devoted to the Gods actually housed them as well. The voyager inquired of how the Gods came to be and was told, "We were once mortal men like you who, due to special qualities -- benevolence, bravery, charisma, and so forth -- were immortalized after our passing. We attained apotheosis by a loving humanity." That was Euhemerus's explanation of why deities came to be: man-made and invented to emphasize special traits that should be emulated by all. In our own time, the sightings of Elvis, while entirely explainable considering all of the impersonators about, suggest the exact same process by which arose the myth of Jesus's resurrection, with a first appearance before the Magdalene. (Imagine that, he chose a whore to make his comeback!) JFK finds himself in similar circumstances. So, yes, people like Elvis and JFK do have eternal life, but as you observe, not for the reasons and not in the same way as the priests would claim.
I've studied the Kennedy murder for over 20 years of my life. It has haunted me that much. Over the years there is so much here in conspiracy theory that it all is impossible to mention, let alone to believe. I am stuck with ONE idea that hints at conspiracy and it's hard to ignore.
The motorcade was not supposed to come up Elm St. that day, but instead was to have turned onto the Stemmons Freeway before arriving at Elm St. This was the chosen route. Now we have Oswald bringing "curtain rods" into the Book Depository building early on, but later we know this is the rifle. It would have been almost impossible for Oswald to have killed Kennedy from that building if the motorcade had went to the Stemmons Freeway as planned.
THE QUESTION would be who changed the route that day? Who had the power to do that, and why did Oswald appear to know in advance that the route would be changed that day? If the above is not accepted as fact, then you would simply have had some idiot firing at a man in a motorcade with almost no possibility of hitting him due to distance.
The alternative, of course, is to believe that it all happened as random chance.
I did note as well in the DVD "JFK: The Lost Tapes" there was a man arrested early on before Oswald was even suspected, and they had to let that man go. It was strange to me that this man could have been Oswald's twin brother by appearance. Co-incidence, or was this the reason the tapes were "lost" for so many years?
IIRC, Oswald had a part-time job at the Book Depository. Can't remember who arranged the job, but I think there were CIA connections. But weren't there witnesses who thought the shots came from the front? Weren't there others who said they smelled the gun powder in front of the motorcade, though the wind was blowing toward the Book Depository, meaning that the smell couldn't have come from Oswald's rifle? The shot from the sixth floor, which you can check out online, didn't look that difficult to me, and the fact that Governor Connolly was in a jump seat, somewhat lower and farther inboard than JFK's makes the magic bullet more plausible. Oliver Stone's recent documentaries on Showtime indicate that JFK intended to pull the US out of Vietnam if re-elected in 1964, and he was conducting back channel peace talks with both Kruschev and also Castro, who was notified of the assassination while in conference with Kennedy's envoy. LBJ hated Communism, and on his watch we went from 16,000 "advisers" in Vietnam to over 560,000 troopsThe Zapruder film shows that the second shot to hit Kennedy struck the right front portion of his head. The first had passed through his throat, causing him to slump to his left.
So Dennis, did the CIA do it as revenge for the Bay of Pigs?
Several of the grassy knoll witnesses were not called to testify before the Commission. Why? It was Arlen Specter, future senator, then general counsel for the Commission, who came up with the "magic bullet" theory: that one of three shots from the virtually worthless rifle by mediocre marksman Oswald went through Kennedy, through John Connally, then back through Kennedy from a different angle, causing the front wound that killed him. This bullet mysteriously wound up on the gurney on which Connally was brought to Parkland Hospital. It looked like it had never been fired. Cyril Wecht, world famous forensic pathologist, has said that the odds against this happening are about 1 in 100,000,000,000 to the 1,000th power, i.e. not. There are a lot of ironies in the makeup of the Commission itself. Try for example the fact that Gerald Ford ended up pardoning Richard Nixon -- before he was convicted of a crime! Allen Dulles, as I've said, was fired by JFK prior to the assassination. Johnson rehired him, and put him on the Commission, a person Kennedy distrusted so much he got rid of him. So many things just don't add up, I am going to go to my grave thinking it was a conspiracy.
I don't think the magic bullet hit Kennedy a second time. The odd position of Connolly's seat put Kennedy's throat on a nearly straight trajectory with Connolly's chest and thigh, and if his arm had been raised, his wrist might have been on that trajectory as well. Jacketed bullets came into use because they tended to deform much less than non-jacketed slugs, so a bullet might cause all those wounds and remain relatively intact, though I can't see how the pristine bullet CE 399 could possibly have taken out a chunk of Connolly's rib and part of his wrist bone.
You obviously know a lot more about these things than I do. We will never be able to prove any conspiracy theory or other, and the inability to put it to rest is like having an untreated open wound. I think it dampened our spirit as a nation and planted unconscious distrust in us.
Some of the best scientific journals in the world have done studies on life after death phenomena. A blind person for his entire life can describe the room he died in. A man describes a shoe on a ledge outside of the hospital where know one can see and when someone crawled out on the ledge it was there. A nurse can't find a man's dentures and he tells here exactly where she put after he died. A child describes a conversation two people had about him in another part of the hospital when they are dead.
You can still deny a scientific study if you want. There is more science for the existence of God than anytime in the history of the world. You can deny that also. But try not to bring science into a debate unless you admit all science like the following.
It is reasonable to believe there was a Big Bang.
Since 2003 and the BVG proof it seems reasonable to most, that all universe theories had a beginning.
Most Physicist believe there was nothing before the universe began.
No one knows how the universe went from nothing to something.
If electromagnetism varied within 10 to the 39th power there could be no life
If gravity varied within 10 to the 50th power there could be no life.
If the weak force constant varied within 10 to the 50th power there could be no life.
If the initial explosion of the Big Bang varied within 10 to the 60th there could be no life.
It is virtually impossible (10 to the 193 power) for a functional protein to create itself.
The probability that our low-entropy universe could have created itself was calculated to be 10^10^123. A double exponent. Written out our universe would have a hard time holding that number.
No Intelligent, top Astro Physicist, that does not have an agenda, does not disagree with any of these calculations. (except of course the biology calculation, unless of course they saw the math)
There is scientific evidence for a soul based on life after death experiences.
There is mounds of proof of miracle, scientific proof even.
After-life experiences have been completely debunked. The mind goes into hyper-fantasy during periods of unconsciousness, inventing all manner of things, mostly what the believer wants to see or hear. There is no more proof of an after-life than there is for pork being the national dish of Iran. That a person sees visions while unconscious is hardly proof that there is a soul.
"There is no more proof of an after-life than there is for pork being the national dish of Iran."
Some analysis of claims about visions in near-death experiences: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html
All Catholics should buy a copy of "The Pope Song", by Tim Minchin
I know John Johnson would love it! :-P
Most Catholic priests are just Freaks and those being investigated are kid fucking mongrels.
It's not totally their fault.
It's the fault of their Indoctrination (mindware contamination) and the stupid doctrines of the Catholic church.
It's the Catholic System that turns them into the extreme idiots they are!
Fancy an elderly male virgin giving advice on marriage and contraception.
That's fucking ridiculous! :-D~
Don't you agree John Johnson, or are you a Catholic Freak too!
John Johnson should be reported to Carl or brother Richard and gotten off this site. The man is a theist here to cause trouble and post stupid questions.