Wish there was a "like" button
Yea, me too
In Australia we have had this same debate, and I finally think we may even get the laws passed within the next few years.
Sadly the debate from the conservative sides are no more enlightend.
One prominent ex-sportwoman, now conservative christian minister left me scratching my head however. I'll paraphrase here as i cant be bothered looking for the exact quote " I mean no disrespect to gays and lesbians, but introducing same sex marriage WILL lead to a breakdown in morals".
WTF??? how can that statement be anything but disrespectful.
I do get very irritated by this whole argument. Really i just don't see how a gay or lesbian couple wanting to marry affects any else's marriage. If it does I think your marriage has bigger problems than that.
True. It doesn't affect anyone else's marriage. When over 50% of all marriages end in divorce, the problem is much deeper than gay or lesbians wanting the same thing the rest of us have, which is equality. If NOM wants to defend marriage, this is the real problem, the real breakdown of "morals".
The state with the largest number of people that claim to be born again Christians and also with the highest divorce rate is Oklahoma. If the defense of marriage is so fucking important I would think the right wing theists would be marching and protesting against divorce.
I notice a total absence of any such protests.
Yes, but you just don't get it! It's the fact that gay people in Massachusetts can marry, that is the cause of the high divorce rate in Oklahoma. It's a butterfly effect- you know, the connectedness of all things, that a butterfly flapping it's wings in Costa Rica could cause hurricane Katrina. Same thing. Just the mere existence of gay people is the cause of the great depression, tuberculosis, and the dust bowl.
I think it's simple, those who are not comfortable with the idea of same-sex marriage don't have to be part of one; other than that they should shut-the-fuck-up.
Hear hear, Richard. And here's my "like" button.
I once thought, why mimic a failed heterosexual instititution. Why give heterosexuals a gloat in trying to enter their exclusive club. Why allow your tormentors to dis you for seeking something biblically sanctioned and, apparently, only for the majority? Don't queers know 50% of all marriages end in divorce, but heterosexuals hypocritically claim that gays are "promiscuous." I don't mince words (no pun intended). I don't like alphabet soup (some gay sites actually have it GLBT, while some lesbian sites have it LGBT, as if it mattered: categories are inherently untrustworthy, something I learned from Buddhists). To me, you are straight or queer. I reserved the right to re-appropraite that word much as urban blacks during the Civil Rights movement re-appropriated and freely referred to themselves as "niggers." Yes, niggers. I am not going to be politically correct and type "n***r" or refer to "the 'N' word." Queers and niggers. The objections to use of either are themselves a form of tyranny, deathly to the artist, who must portray, say, a Southern cracker by quoting him verbatim, as in the Otto Preminger movie, Hurry Sundown, where the late Burgess Meredith, lest she once against sip from the "Sacred Chalice," actually refers to a celebrant at Mass as "an old syphilitic nigger woman." But, I digress.
Sooner or later it dawned on me that marriage is a right. It does not make any difference if you are doing it in a church or getting hitched by, e.g. a minister of the Universal Life Church. (We chose the latter: a friend brought a couple of joints, we smoked them, and we exchanged vows to the most laid back non-religious, "spiritual" marriage ceremony in the 1970s. Friends came over for drinks, a wonderful mixture of gay and straight, old and young, three or four races -- it was L.A.) If gay men wish to emulate heterosexuals, have at it. It isn't the business of the government to dictate that one type of people can do something and another type cannot. The Constitution is an expansive, rather than restrictive, document.
Finally, in my early 60s, I began to see that the only possible reasons anyone would have to oppose such things (and things like contraception and abortion) is religious. These people read no science so they would not know that Sodom was built on a time-bomb pocket of mephitic gasses left over from billions of years earlier (not six days in one week circa 5,000 BCE). They do not educate themselves in archeology and anthropology and thus would not know that the story of Lot in Sodom illustrates not that the denizens of that city on the plain were homosexual but that their "sin" was xerophobia. They fashioned procrustean beds to stretch nomadic tribes coming in off the desert and looking for sustenance, a meal and a wife or daughter, freely given, except in Sodom. To claim that Sodom teaches anything justifying homophobia is just plain ignorant. Nor do these people appear to have any problem with Lot impregnating his own daughters after his wife is turned into a delusion. It is like saying, homosexuality is bad but incest is good.
And when the only justification one can find for one's positions on such matters as gay marriage is a biblical (Koranic, Torahnic) proscription, one's position is inherently flawed. Either science is correct and religion is wrong, or science is wrong and religion is correct. It's Darwin or Genesis. I choose reason over superstition. It's that simple. I totally support gay marriage. I have to, I'm a divorce lawyer.
Thoughtful response James. That last zinger made me laugh. Friday my partner and I were at our financial planner who recommended a pre-nup. A bit late - we've been together 15 years. I just responded, if he leaves me I assume I'm screwed - I'll just have to work till I drop, which is probably true anyway. And we seem to be past having any drama - but I understand the issue. When we got together, it was less "Oh I love you so much, Oh roses and hearts and champaigne and violins" than it was "Well, we're comfortable together, it's nice, it would be more practical to combine our resources". That is the practical midwestern farmer in me, and the practical rust-belt chinese in him.
Oh, SB. How I envy you. To be at that stage of comfort with another person. To be past the fire works (which is GREAT by the way) to the state of total acceptance by another. Comforting, warm, all encompassing, like a down comforter on a cold December morning. You know I lost my wife a few years ago, and we were just getting to that stage. I think of you, and others who are there, and it brings a smile to my face and heart. Somewhat wistful, of course, but genuine.
Enjoy, my friend, enjoy. Peace to you, and to your partner. My best. As usual, be well. Peace.
There are so many benefits to marriage: greater sexual satisfaction, better physical and mental health, less depression and alcohol problems, lower mortality risk. Married people are more likely to volunteer services, make more money, and contribute to the affluence of a neighborhood.
I don't see how keeping anybody from reaping these benefits can be justified.