So I have had doubts with my faith for the longest time. In fact, there is a big chance that I will never be a Christian again, because of all the loopholes, lies and justifications that I have to go through just to be a Christian. But my girlfriend doesn't know much about the bible and is a modest believer. She doesn't really try to force it on anyone and she is going to a Christian apologist camp for a week so she could learn about the bible. Only problem is that I don't know what BS that they are going to tell her. When she comes back, should I tell her that I am a nonbeliever and give her the Skeptic's Annotaded Bible? I'm NOT trying to force her to be an atheist, I just want her to look at the bible with open eyes.

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Absolutely! When had you planned to tell her, when she was planning a christian burial for you when you died of old age? 

Would you not like to talk to her about how and what you think and have a parting of the way before you have a baby together or a mortgage, or you find she bores the hell out of you, or she tries to convert you?? 

If your girlfriend goes to a Christian apologist camp she will learn how to lie, distort, deny, excuse, repress, suppress, project, or all the other ego defense mechanisms that Christian apologetics teaches. 

Oh so true so very true when it comes to excuses at every level. Plus never know she may just be another closet Atheist. 

I agree with Joan Denoo 100%. At age 70 I have not lived with my young African wife for over 2 years, but she asked me recently how we all got here if there was no god. My reply was that I had parents. She admits that sometimes she wonders if there really is a god, but most people do not understand basic concepts.

There was no first man or woman, no first chicken, first frog, or first lizard, etc. Believers deal with absolutes that really are basic magic --- Poof! -- and there it is. Things do not work that way. They do not understand that their argument of god "always existing" does not fix or explain things. We do not know everything and it is OK not to know. Believers simply make it up. Science is ever changing while the Bible is ever static. This gets so confusing to believers that many tell me today that the Bible does not mean what it so openly  says. Apologists have told them it means  "something else" in regards to a plainly stated passage. The faithful just keep believing.

Bible doctrine has changed greatly in my lifetime. Does this mean there is no god? Could there be a god without a holy book? There is a 99.9 % chance that there is no god. If there is one and he wants to talk to me, he won't be doing it through the ancient writings of nomadic sheep and goat herders, confusing people into study of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to try and understand what was really said.

If she's not already gone to camp I'd give the Skeptics Bible first. If she checks it out before camp it may help innoculat her against the BS.

I think that what I was trying to say in my ramblings before is that if you do not tell her it will only cause confusion and bad feelings later. Theists believe lots of weird crap.

definitely. It's a matter of being as honest with her as you would want her to be with you.

It may not be a disaster. But it will provide a time for both of you to discuss one another's feelings, and understand ones own feelings. The relationship can still succeed, depending on the people involved, and if it does, it won't be based on lies.

Did she ask you to go to the camp with her? Is she looking to get more serious about her faith? Maybe her friends are all going and it's a social trip more than an educational one for her?

I agree with not trying to force anyone to be atheist. It's something you both have to accept about each other if you belief different things. I was married to a Muslim man for 5 years. I was upfront about my beliefs, but I didn't use the world atheist back then as I was in the mindset then that it was too harsh a word. Our marriage ended, not over religion, but now I can see how if we stayed together and had kids it would have been an issue. He was lax in his religious duties at the time, but maybe that would have changed with kids and more time.

It would be best if you could have a discussion with her about the camp and her expectations. Maybe tell her you tried reading and learning more about the bible and that lead you to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. I think the more open and information seeking you are with her, i.e. open ended questions, hopefully the calmer the conversation will be.

Have you learned about street epistemology? There ares some great videos on YouTube

He asks good open ended questions, keeps the conversation going. I'm not saying try this on your girlfriend, but it might help you figure out how to talk with her with being preachy. If she can't have an open discussion about this, then that will be telling too. Relationships/marriages are about teamwork and cooperating by having constant open communication. This is one thing wasn't great in my marriage and now I see it as extremely important.

Good luck :)

A great suggestion, Kelly, and reference. Thanks. 

I hope things went well. I agree with people here, how would it feel after your married and have kids (or not who knows what you two have talked about) to have your wife constantly urging you to go to church. Will she grow to resent your refusal to attend? Will you attend and attempt to pretend to be interested?

If she's already attending apologetic camps will she likely choose to grow "stronger" in her faith over time? Christians have and will break up/divorce over things like "being in different places with our walk in christ." It seems to me a possibility worth considering if you don't come off as 100% as into Christianity as she is during any point in her "walk" with christ she could grow unhappy and choose to find someone in the same place as her.

If you fake it could you really be ok with yourself long term? If you've read my Introduction this may seem a bit hypocritical of me to say, but it's precisely because I know how hard it is to maintain appearances, the toll that takes on you and the isolation fear resentment it can create. It's an important thing to consider. Had I any other options I likely would have chosen a different way to live a long time ago (perhaps I did have other options but the emotional manipulation and fear are a powerful driving force, and in fact if you decided to hide your non believe those two things would assault you daily I think).

I don't know how well the Skeptic's Annotated bible would be received if you handed it to her out of the blue. It could be a huge shock to the system and end the relationship right there. With most things its less about what you say/do but HOW you say/do them. All I can say is you know here better than anyone here, good luck whatever you decide. 

So.  It's now more than a month later.  Have you told her?  Before or after the camp?  How did she take it?  Are you still dating?  Have you moved forward,or backed away?  Oh.  Yes.  It's really none of our business.  But whatever happened, we all wish you the best possible outcome.




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