i've been watching the original series all weekend on PBS.  tonight the epic return featuring Neil DeGrasse Tyson, on Fox and NatGeo!  yes, SCIENCE bitches!!  set your DVR's!!

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MMF Don't give up on us yet! There are treasures beyond measures in this little group of reality based thinkers. We don't all agree, and we argue sometimes. Really, it is very fun to get into a scramble and work our ways through it. 

The people who responded to your comment will prove to be your strongest ally when you need someone to sort through your thoughts and feelings.  Both thought and feelings matter and I, for one, am becoming very impatient with people who continue to sit on the fence, or who want everyone to agree with everything. 

My strategy, as I stated before, is to give as good as you get. I think you find it enriching. 

MMF, I understand where you're coming from. Having a family much like you describe yours, I sometimes tend to be sensitive to the way religion is portrayed. The people l run into on a regular basis won't understand much of the first episode of Cosmos. If they bother to watch at all. But maybe if their kids, or gkids watch, this religious crap will come up for some open discussion with the kind of people you and I deal with. The negativity against evolution where I live is intolerable.

looks great

My hope for this film, Cosmos, is that those who are sitting on the fence, not knowing which way to jump, and those who are afraid to jump to the non-believer's side, will see the sheer fun of thinking. Having no pre-ordained instructions on what is and is not allowed frees one from traditions and empowers one to reach beyond the traditional ways of thinking. Personal thinking lifts a burden off one's shoulders; Atlas can let the globe go and do its natural thing.

One is not freed from experiencing the consequences of choices, there is no redeemer to rescue one, there is no loving father who will forgive irresponsible behavior if one bows down to Jesus at the gates of heaven ... which does not exist. 

The attitudes, beliefs, customs, traditions and values based on religious teachings exist in this modern age is as inappropriate and foolish as trying to conduct business in the electronic age using sheep herder principles and practices. That is sheer vacuousness and self-indulgence.

I have no respect for those who use the bible as an authority for anything except a hierarchy of male dominators, who parade around with pomp and circumstance, looking like fools, with supplicants acting like sheep being led off to slaughter.

Being quiet in their presence serves no one. Quietly listening simply implies agreement. Departing their company without a word of disagreement leaves the time and space full of their silly blathering.

Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson speak their truth, honestly, concretely, specifically, unapologetically, confidently and competently. We can do that, too.

a must read on this topic.  this article may deserve it's own thread.  

epic, from the comments section.  this may have been lifted from somewhere:

there comes a time when 'meeting halfway' and compromise are 
unacceptable, when the people you're dealing with voraciously take ten 
miles, if you give an inch, and spit on your face as they do it.

adult, intelligent, and decent people are saying enough is enough to 
stupid, ignorant, bigoted, close minded, foolish foolish people whom, 
for the sake of a fairy tale, would see our species' potential, and the 
beauty of truth torn down, raped and flushed down the toilet. 
"Ok you believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want." may have 
been a wonderful social defense mechanism, it gave humanity breathing 
room for a few centuries, but religionists have gone too far, done too 
much wrong, flaunted their embarassing stupidty too much, have chewed 
away and pushed at the compromise too much, harmed and maimed too many 
people. Enough is enough, so yes, at every turn you are going to be 
mocked, your bullshit is going to be called, and there will be no more 
compromise: reality is solid, it contains measurable truths that are 
truth no matter who is looking at them, even weirdness can be explained,
and no we do not agree to disagree, we flat out, no fucking around 
If you think there is a 'realm' or 'plane' above/beyond/outside physical reality, you are a fucking moron and you are wrong. If you think you have a portion of yourself that is going to continue when your body stops working, you are a fucking moron and you are wrong. IF you think spirits, or demons, or fairies, or nymphs cause you or other people to do things, you are a fucking moron and you are wrong. 
You are as wrong and dumb in these things as people were for thinking the world flat, for thinking women incapable of personhood, for thinking africans incapable of personhood, for thinking the magician actually made a rabbit teleport into his hat, and a smorgasbord of other things that people thought/believed which are commonly derided as being dumb and wrong today.

I agree with the sentiment of these statements. I don't like the "f" or "s" words. They weaken the argument as far as I am concerned. 

I like to use those "nasty body excretion" words when I refer to my own feelings. But to call someone else such names seems vulgar and unnecessary.  

I know, they are just words, a string of letters signifying nothing. Well, I continue to disagree with your fine assessments. We firmly agree to disagree. 

Matthew, do you want to start it? if not, I will. You are correct. It deserves a thread of its own. A must read!

agreed, Joan.  be my guest.  

You may be correct about the matter of the right wing and Tyson needing a separate discussion, Matthew.  Hard, disciplined science hasn't been much in evidence on traditional network television for a while.  We get it on the Discovery networks and maybe BBC America, but not much on the old broadcast base.  Now all of a sudden, Neil is out there, talking serious fact about cosmology and evolution and it's no wonder there are people up in arms.  Their precious fantasies are being unceremoniously stepped on, and they can't deal with it, other than to predictably whine and attempt to counter using the same old BS points we've all heard too many times to count.

It never occurred to me that Cosmos all by itself could wind up being a serious point of contention, but then, I have no problem with science.  The ID proponents, the climate-change deniers all seem to think they can steer the facts as they see fit, but Tyson won't let them, and he has a full grasp of the facts to do it with.  Worse, he's going public with those facts and making them not just accessible but ENTERTAINING!  And the ultimate fallout of all of this is that the woo-peddlers and cherry-pickers are going to take it on the chin yet again and maybe, just maybe, more people are going to recognize the value of disciplined, methodological research, not just out in the cosmos, but in their everyday lives.

Science ... it WORKS, bitches!

Loren, Hip! Hip! Horray! to all that you wrote. I have to remind myself that Tyson and a whole string of others have been speaking truth to nonsense for a very long time and they have been successfully silenced by being attacked verbally and sometimes physically. You know my story, a man called me at home and stated he didn't like what I was writing on Facebook and was going to rape me with a blowtorch. OUCH! That was a very vivid threat, and one that could be a real threat. I took it as a fool shouting out of his ignorance, trying desperately to hold on to his antiquated belief system. 

I want to call attention to:  

Brian Greene - The Elegant Universe

DALE MCGOWAN - Parenting Beyond Belief, Raising Freethinkers

Daniel Dennett - Breaking The Spell, Intuition Pumps, and Other Too...

Living After Faith - LAF

And I love what Matt posted. I would love to call out the religious bigots l know for the totally ignorant, arrogant, people they are. Well put Loren.
I wish I had your, and many others on here, way with words.




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