We have next-door neighbors that we've had for over 20 years. We are both 45, and they are both around 65. We could NOT be more different from each other. We are Atheists and Liberal Democrats, and they are born-again and VERY right-wing. But they are really good neighbors. Bring us baked-goods, nice to us, etc. We do the same. But every once-in-a-while the wife says something bad about President Obama, or worse, something racist, etc. Once she asked me to sign a petition to help get abortion made illegal. I said I would never sign something like that. She HAS to know we are Democrats, we've seen each other @ the polls and she's seen signs in our yard, etc. SO. I just stepped over there today to tell them (and be friendly, because they are always complimenting our kids) that our daughter, 20, got a paid internship (YAY!), and our son who has been homeschooled (our daughter never was) got his GED on the first try (he got it because there is no diploma for homeschoolers in IL). I was proud and knew they'd be happy for them.
Anyway, to make a short-story long, she brings up President Obama and how he's a Socialist,drank and snorted cocaine (I pointed out that even if he did, which I don't know, so did her precious George W and she ignored that) and instead of just changing the subject, I decided to not be quiet. I just said well I am voting for Obama again, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. She just sort-of mumbled something and stepped over by her husband. Before THIS conversation, she said her pastors daughter was married to a , and she WHISPERED IT, black man. She is very racist. How 'christian' of her! She also has said everyone shouldn't get healthcare because if 'they' get it, it will take away from 'us'. WHAT? I said to her then "Well that doesn't seem very christian", and then she back-tracked.
I don't think she knows we're Atheists and I KNOW she doesn't know my daughter is bi-sexual or she would just die! I know they already wonder how such heathens raised two great young-adults.
I am NOT keeping my mouth shut anymore. Anything racist or stupid-religious (like when she said'god' sends the tsunamis because he's mad, etc. I am going to be very ladylike, but firm in saying that that is AWFUL. I will not just change the subject to avoid controversy with a neighbor that is literally a few feet from our house.
Thanks for letting me rant!
Booklover, I work with senior citizens so once in awhile I get a client who comments about Obama being a socialist (ooh...the best was a lady claiming FDR was a socialist...I'm pretty sure she was collecting social security). The worst was I had some overbearing non-Jewish yenta who wouldn't stop trying to convert me to Christianity, believed Obama was a Muslim, foreign born, etc. Nowadays I'll just say I don't talk about politics. (Which is not exactly true...with my regular client, a lifelong republican who likes Obama, we talk politics all the time!)
The good part that I can take from having clients, or neighbors like this, is seeing the humanity of people who think very differently from me. If people still treat each other like neighbors even if they have very different politics, this is a good thing. If politics is an argument about the best way to live, by treating each other badly for different views, it's making quality of life worse. (Of course, there are some ideas about how to live that I just can't tolerate.)
My wife and I have experienced similar bigoted remarks form friends and family who consider themselves christian's and since they have no problem espousing their opinions we intern give ours. When we confront them with their bigoted remarks they either deny they are or get angry (for being called out). After these confrontations two things happen, either they don't bring up the subjects anymore or they stop associating with us. We haven't changed their minds but at least we have let them know what's on ours.
Okay, this just happened to me. I just got back from taking my next door neighbor to the doctor. He is 88, can't drive anymore, so I help him. His 50 y.o. MR daughter lives with him, so I help with her too. No big deal, I seem to get much more out of it than they do. Anyway, coming back from the doctor, the maid/helper he and his family hired to help out around the house just told him today she was quitting. Only been working for him 3 weeks. The reason? She found out I was an atheist, and could't be around someone like me. He has known for a few years, and has never treated me with anything but friendship.
I was kinda speechless for a moment. Before I could say anything, he placed his hand on my arm and said, don't worry, that is her problem, not ours. We are fine. I can get somebody else. All I could say was thank you. Then he said, no, thank you for all you do for us.
So, dumb just comes from all places. But so does understanding. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest, guys. Be well, my friends.
great story Tony. thanks for sharing.
Yes Melinda, he is a nice man. I'm so glad he is my friend. I truly get so much more out of helping him than he gives me in return. Though I've heard from others he feels the same way, that he gets much more out of our relationship. Thanks for your thoughts, and tell your daughter congrats. We all will be looking to hear from you.
Pat, he is. I am kinda loathe to say this, as it seems like bragging, but I do multiple things for him. I go shopping for him, go pay his bills, to the post office. I also check in on him daily, more than once daily (when I'm not at work), do minor chores for him around the house, take his daughter places. And me and Ann go to dinner/lunch a couple times a week, as I enjoy her company. Sweet person. I'm not trying to brag, it's just who I am. Do for some other people too. You truly, truly, are repayed when you do what is right. Don't need no damn book to get morals from. Its just a natural extension of our common humanity, or should be, as I see it. Thanks, my friend. Be well in all things.
Although I am right wing, yet independent, I do not agree with religious crap and most of those types of ideals that most conservative republicans tend to have. What I don't like is our socialist president who believes he is above criticism. Obama has a bad record, and it is worse than Bush. I believe they have a right to address that if you guys do happen to speak politics. I don't believe they need to push the issue on you, though. All I can say is this: If you're going to give crap, expect to get it back. I tend to see this as an issue with a lot of liberals and conservatives on both sides. Stop acting like children throwing a temper tantrum. Both Sides! Your neighbors seem like rather ignorant people, but keep in mind, not all of us conservatives can be placed in that category. You have valid arguments, as do I. There needs to be a level of respect on both sides. Although I believe Obama is going to be the collapse of this republic, I don't have a right to tell you you're wrong for voting for who you feel is right for the job. In the same aspect, don't tell me who I need to vote for. - A conservative independent atheist living in bible belt hell.
I appreciate you referring to me as reasonable. I have good sources. The Tampa Bay Times tends to be a liberal media source, so I can't count on them to depict accurate information, the same way a conservative source would not depict good info. I don't believe there are many good bi-partisan sources out there. Here's what I see: The trends Obama seems to follow is what is popular at the moment. He has a record of being for something to improve his record, when he was indifferent about it prior to the occasion. You say we are in recovery. I say not. Try coming where I live and finding a job that pays more than 9 dollars an hour. I guarantee you won't find one. Even with a college degree. Things were stable until Bush left. I'll tell you what would boost my economic situation: The Keystone oil pipeline. You know, that project that Obama puts off, yet approves the part of it that doesn't matter.
Obama's views on the military are rather shameful. At least with Bush, I knew my programs weren't going to be cut. Obama will cut military programs, yet leave civilian Federal employees untouched. My view is this: He's never served, he doesn't have a right to touch MY programs. I earned every cent the government gave me while I was in the military and then some. Most people in the military hate Obama. He never shows up to talk with wounded servicemen and women. He never personally calls parents of fallen servicemembers. He's never addressed a military crowd outside of campaigning. It's sad, because most of his talks are "mandatory fun" for us. If they weren't, nobody would show up. Out of the 300 or 400 servicemembers I personally know, I have maybe 1 or two that actually like Obama. That's of all different ethnicities and backgrounds. I haven't been to a VFW post that supports him. He claims to have gotten us out of Iraq, but he actually wanted to stay. Damn that immunity from their laws... LMAO! He's a showman, just like Mussolini was.
When it comes to the nitty gritty, he's not one to take responsibility without a backup CYA plan. He's shown this several times. Four year spending totals for Bush in his last term: 11.838 Trillion. Obama: 14.373 Trillion. Bush's highest budget deficit was 458 Billion in 2008. Obama has never been below 1.2 Trillion.
I agree with booklover's neighbors about Obama's socialist ties. Obamacare is a perfect example of this. Not to mention the guy has never had a real job, pretty much lived off of the government most of his life, went to a black supremacist church and other bad points. Ask most of the people that helped him financially to get into office, they'll tell you that Obama pretty much told them to screw themselves when it came to speaking to their students, or in any way returning the favor. Obama himself will tell you to never trust a politician's promises.
Bush definitely had his bad points, but when it comes down to it, Obama can't take any criticism at all, and refuses to release information on the same subjects he demands of everybody else. I've also never seen Obama take a photo opportunity with a veteran. I've got my picture with G.W. All I had to do was ask. Hell, he even gave me his lapel pin as a gift. When has Obama done that? Besides, what kind of self centered idiot writes their own autobiography at 30 years of age? Unless you have a big ego and think you're important before you're even old enough to run for the Presidency. Now that he's in office, you can only meet with him if you're important enough in his opinion. I guess when you have people like Valerie Jarrett to speak for you in the White House, you can do whatever you want. He's a bad President, and I have had no respect for him whatsoever. This is rather unusual for me, because I believe that even Bill Clinton was a decent President. I guess if he gets a 2nd term, I may be proven right, I may be proven wrong. I still stand by my comments though. Obama is bad for business and bad for this country. I'm getting to the point I have no pride in this nation anymore. And that pains me, because I truly believed in the United States until 4 years ago. I guess the only section of government I can have pride in these days is the military. Just for the record, I don't think highly of Romney either. I will pencil in on my ballot, because I don't believe Obama nor Romney deserve to hold the title of United States Commander-in-Chief. Rebuttals are welcome, of course!
I don't do fact checking on Wiki, because anybody can be an author. Therefore, it can't be counted on for facts.
This isn't about a scapegoat, it's about facts. Obama isn't the only reason I lose hope in government. We don't have ANY politicians with a lick of sense. They are dooming us all.
Nope, i agree, Obama didn't raise taxes on the middle class... yet. Military spending cuts ARE going to happen. Apparently they want to go through the same dilemma that happened when the Korean War broke out. I guess it would be perfectly acceptable sending soldiers into combat without training when we don't have enough manpower. The guy has no military mindset.
I would love for you to point out my distorted facts. I would also like to know what "truth" I was intentionally distorting. The fact that Obama doesn't have much support with the VFW? Or the fact that he won't take a picture with a servicemember off the record? I can point out that maybe you're a little irritated that i insult what seems to be your poster boy for the Presidency.
I don't ignore facts, it's just that this guy sets himself up for failure worse than any other President I have seen. Besides government bailouts (Which are terrible for poorly run companies anyway) and all the other things that he's responsible for, you can't tell me the guy hasn't run up twice the debt in half the time as Bush unless you are A) Delusional; or B) Just plain ignoring fact! As for Melinda agreeing with you, I suppose she would, being a liberal Democrat. That's what Obama is, right? See, I get frustrated because I want our country to thrive, not go deeper in debt. I want businesses that aren't efficient to fail. Maybe it will be a reality check, instead of getting bailed out by the government. Government needs to stay the hell out of private business. Free market capitalism is designed this way. Do you know what system is designed to include government in business? Socialism!
Obama didn't accomplish that. I believe the US Navy SEALs did. So you're telling me his "skills" left our guys alive? Bahaha!! This argument is never going to end. I don't hate Obama, but I dislike his practices. It's never going to change, just as you are going to continue to like him. End of story.
I'm not gonna lie, I'd partly give Obama hell, because I view him as trying to make monumental achievements to get re-elected. But, with that said, I wouldn't blame the SEALs either. I personally know several of them, and they are some of the best when it comes to doing what they do. Sometimes missions just get botched. I've been on a few that went close to horribly wrong. There's several true Obama haters out there that would definitely blame him. I said what I said because I know how the military works, and I know that no operation is flawless, let alone does it go exactly as planned, ever. A lot of Americans don't. It's when he has involvement in things like the Fair Building and Groundskeeping Act of 2011 that I will blame him, because ultimately, he didn't do anything to stop it. Now we can't protest anywhere the secret service is present. I take that as meaning I can't effectively petition the government as stated in the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. That's where I get a little tussy.
The word atheist has an emotional wallop for some people. The real definition of the word and the emotional definition are two entirely different things. Just ask Tony (in this thread) about that. Marketing and propaganda is used frequently to attach an emotional definition to some words.
Andy - when you say that Obama is a Socialist president you have fallen for the emotional definition of socialist that has been constructed by manipulative opinion makers down there. Up here in Canada Obama looks like a Conservative and he might even be to the right of our governing Conservative party who couldn't have got elected if they wanted to radically change our health care.
I saw a Texas ad on Bill Maher where they sneered at the term "Moderate" when trying to take down a political opponent. Maybe that will be the next dirty word in politics. Bill said the weird thing was it looked like something his writers might have done as a bit - but now a group is trying to make being a "moderate" a bad thing.