Someone is Judged for Insulting of People's Religious Feelings in Turkey

It is wanted an 1.5 years of penalty.

For Turkish readers:

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As Western influence declines around the world, it's as predictable as gravity that Muslim countries will revert to the fundamentals of Islam. Which, as Sam Harris says:

The Problem with Islamic Fundamentalism are the Fundamentals of Islam

So it's no surprise that Turkey is becoming the New Ottomans. Prime Minister Erdogan now has control over the military and media, locking up hundreds on false charges of the fictitious Ergenekon case. Military coups were the only thing protecting secular Turks but now that time has passed and their Islamic future is assured.

Actually the greatest organisation supporting the Islamic conversion in turkey is Fetullah Gülen's "Cemaat"

He is in quite good terms with USA

Why would you think that there was such a thing as "Western infulence" that carried enlightenment to people across the globe?

Believe they carry more missions than schools.


As Western influence declines around the world, it's as predictable as gravity that Muslim countries will revert to the fundamentals of Islam

This observation is correct in respect of Islamic countries only. In case of Turkey, if the trend towards fudamentalism is to be reversed, then it would be better if it admitted to the EU. 

Turkey is 99% Muslim. Ergo, its natural tendency is towards funamentalist Islam. The EU is insane if it admits 70 million more Muslims into its borders. All that will do is speed up Europe's own suicidal Islamisation whilst doing nothing in Turkey but make more space for Muslim babies. The problem is Islam, no matter where it goes, as the Sam Harris video showed.

Turkey is not 99% Muslim

I'm counted as Muslim too... Everyone in Turkey is counted as Muslim, including Alevis (which they really aren't, as far as tending to fundamentalism is concerned). Everyone gets recorded as "Muslim" when they are born, and you have to go through legal procedures to change that - obviously no one bothers with it. 

Turkey's mosque attending statistics and the fact that many women wear freely can give you a hint that even though many consider themselves Muslims, many are quite strongly against fundamentalism. 

In Turkey people are raised with Western ideals and Muslims at the same time, which is quite an interesting (and unstable) position. 

Even the supporters of the major right-wing political movement are not really fundamentalists, actually there is speculation that recently one quite fundamentalist scholar in Turkey got owned by them because he was against them. Our current leaders and their supporters like moderate Islam, because they apply liberal economy and it is good for business. Fundamentalism, is quite bad for business and that is etched into its very bones.

But between the fundamentalism without political support and proper secularism that we want there is a sweet spot of moderate Islam that gets the support of millions, I actually am not afraid of fundamentalism very much. Turkey always had fundamentalist and no one cared. But these moderate Islamists are popular, and that is what makes them dangerous.

And there is no such thing as "suicidal Islamisation", anywhere in the world.

Islam will decline just like any other religion. The political attention it seems to be getting is the main focus of many conversions around the world today.

Never think that those "Muslims" in Europe would actually want their hands cut, their women stoned, or any other stone age law. When asked "Would you rather live in Iran" all the say is "Well, I would want where there really is proper sharia " which is a very good example to give if a kid asks you "Dad, what does bullshit mean?". They simply don't want it.

They basically want to live in a Western society with western laws and freedom and be moralist, idealist rebels that don't really have to think for themselves because Allah (Muhammad) told them what to think. They want to be right and proud without having to figure anything out, but I don't think many of them actually want Islam for what it really is.

Going with the popular and meaningful virus metaphor of religions (which I think should not be a metaphor, we should have a term for "thought virus" by now), when a new one is introduced it tends to spread. So vaccinate your kids and watch who they are hanging out with, but don't forget that it is just a phase, and in time people will grow resistant to it. Understand that because of the image it creates in people's mind they tend to grow  a little paranoid about it (remember swine flu anyone?).

There is absolutely no reason to think that in an ideological interaction fundamentalist Islam can succeed over secularism.

Sure there will be wins and losses for both sides, and I understand the fear since I'm living in a progressively Islamising country, but if Islam is rock then reason is paper. (I'm loving these metaphors today.)

Trust in your ideals, and don't get deluded by paranoia. In our Turkish forum I see more and more people from heavily fundamentalist families turning to the luminous path of atheism :) Mostly thanks to internet, and the fact that because of the Islamis trend more Muslims are going to schools, abroad etc. 

Islam is just getting out of the closet, and the one that will lose most from that is inevitably Islam. Hopefully in my lifetime :)

What I don't understand is why someone would first say he supports this

"As Western influence declines around the world, it's as predictable as gravity that Muslim countries will revert to the fundamentals of Islam."

and only a day later would say that

"The EU is insane if it admits 70 million more Muslims into its borders."

Which basically means "EU is insane if it tries to influence Turkey through cultural interaction"

What kind of "western influence" did you have in mind? 


I believe that Turkey has a sizeable population of secularists, all 70 millions are not aggressive religionists. I also do not underestimate the Euporeans. I am sure that they will be a softening experiance on the turkish people. What I suggested is to bring about a change by engagement. This is a correct strategy before militancy takes over.



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