Stop "Creation Science" Indiana Senate, The State of Indiana, petition:

The passage of this bill and the teaching of so-called creation science in public schools greatly undermines the value of American education. That this was even proposed is a serious embarrassment to Americans everywhere and is a blatant mockery of the constitution and of real science education. We should unite against any proposals that will ultimately undermine our children's education and our competitiveness in education, science and innovation. Real science in the science classroom, period.

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jeremy belcher

I could not watch the video because I do not have the correct version of the necessary software. Don't be angry for this.

I will never say that they will not openly oppose evolution. I think that courts in US have already ruled that Intellegent Design is not science and refused to allow creationist ideas in school. The creationists have to continue their efforts to discredit science, they can not stop their bravado. I can not say that what I said is true for every catholic but I do not yet feel that all of them are so fool as not to understand reality. I trust their hypocracy for this.

US is a country where science in most visible. I am still trying to accept what you are saying but I will have to trust their foolishness more than I trust their hypocracy. A big dillemma, considering the past history of religion.

I am not angry I simply was not aware that you were not able to access the video, if you want me to I can post links to the Courts final judgement.

 The RCC has a rather mixed attitude to evolution but it is unwavering in one claim that "Goddidit" in other words even if he did'nt do it in six days he started and then directed evolution.But, as I have pointed out the most numerous, vocal, and visible opponents of evolution are the Christian fundamentalists, they don't even accept that Catholics are "real" Christians.

No one is claiming that the US is not a technolgically advanced nation of course it is, that goes without saying, and yes the courts have thus far upheld the constitution and ruled against the teaching of creationism/Intelligent Design. But that is only part of the story, as approx 50% of US citizens think the courts were wrong and that evolution is a fiction or at best only one "theory" amongst others.

 Neither am I trying to argue that all is lost, the growth in numbers and confidence of the Atheist community in the US, of which sites like this (and the forthcoming Reason Rally) are indeed a very visible reflection that it is not.I am simply saying that it is not the time to be complacent and believe that the argument is won, when the evidence suggests otherwise.


jeremy belcher

I am well aware of your viewpoint because similar views have been expressed here by others too and I do not want to be understood as opposing them.

I have recently concluded a discussion with a staunch creationist. One simple question I asked him was, 'Why god, staying in the heaven, could not notice from there that earth was spherical?' He mentioned a bible verse which, according to him, says that earth is spherical. I immediately mailed the same to him to show that what he says is not true. He then had to twist the bible words to show that it says that the earth is spherical.

Now, Jeremy, this creationist person is a well educated American, who knew what he was saying, he knew that I could not believe his twisted interpretation and yet he gave that explaination. He was least concerned about convincing me in a one to one dialogue, he was just interested in making a statement to confirm his faith. Religion can live with only this kind of hypocracy.

The creationist Americans use science and technology in their personal lives to get full pleasure out of them and oppose science only when it hurts their selfish interests. They are least ashamed of their hypocracy. I strongly believe that their bluff should be called.




 What do you mean by call their bluff ?  is this a reference to your earlier point where you wrote the following

"I think, as a legislative tactic, those in the house who do not believe in creation science should introduce a bill to make creation science an optional subject."

 If it is, then not only would it be un-constitutional and therefore unacceptable ( and rightly so) it would also be a huge step backwards  in the fight to keep religion out of education. Or is this yet more anecdotal tales of your on-line exchange with what appears to be a very nervous creationist and that the way forward is to challenge them on the issue of whether the earth is spherical and, or, created 6- 10.000years ago. If so, I think you will find that we already do that.

If it is either of the above then you are missing the point.As the point is the huge constituency of support for a literal reading of the Bible that exists in the US, which leads to an en-masse rejection of science (which really means rejecting evolution) and a meaningful science based education for chidren in the US public school system.

jeremy belcher

By saying ' Call their bluff' I mean that let us first understand that their bravado in opposing science in general and evolution in particular, is for public consumption and then expose their tactic to general public including their flock.  Once their flock understands their duplicity, their faith will start developing cracks.



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