I would like to do a piece on my blog, Releasing Religion, regarding mixing God & government.  And I'd like to know what opinions people have here about doing such a thing.  Some points to mention are:

Glenn Beck is well known for arguing that we have misunderstood that founding fathers & their desire to keep church & state separate.  Holding his rally on 8/28, he gathered 150.000 people to hear him talk about bringing out country "back to God".  What do you think it would do to our country to "get back to God"? 

The Tea Party has been called racist Chrisotcrats. In their recent convention, most conference sessions began with prayers.  What do you think of the Tea Party?  Do you know very little about them?  Do you know a lot?  Please share your thoughts here.

The piece will be posted on www.releasingreligion.blogspot.com

Tags: 8/28, Beck, Christocrats, Glenn, Honor, Party, Rally, Restoring, Tea

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wow, I take a trip to southern california (hey, Maia, I'm in your hood! just down the road in Irvine) and I miss all the fun!

and you were celebrating 103 posts Maia? So much for writing an article - it looks like you are going to need a novel to write this up. Not too shabby for your first discussion!

It is a fascinating subject isn't it? Like you, I think the "why" is the really interesting story here. Linda is right in that they certainly are both mad, and afraid. I don't blame them.

Where most of us in this forum disagree with the TP is in who we hold responsible for causing the problems that are making us so mad and afraid. They seem to think that liberal policies are the cause of their ills, despite 30 years of conservative politics. They haven't grasped that it is the policies of the party that they are aligning with that are causing those ills.

It's very similiar to their religous beliefs. They simply don't understand their own religion, their politics or their history. Remember the Pew study a week or two ago where atheist scored the highest in religious knowledge? Well, I bet we could also beat them in political knowedge as well.

Read, or watch, "What's the Matter with Kansas" for an indepth analysis of why people are convinced to vote for the party that is against their very best interest and against the party that is most beneficial to them.

Great discussion Maia. More than you bargained for I bet.
No joke, Larry! But I'm not complaining. Not even a little bit. It means that I'll have to take a bit more time putting the article together, as we're coming at this from so many angles. Maybe I'll read through this thread and highlight the bullet points to start? But let's see where it goes...

Irvine! Whoot! I'm in Diamond Bar. I love to take my daughter to Irvine Park. Peacocks, trains, horses, petting zoo... can't go wrong.

I'm gonna checkout that Kansas Analysis and then get back to you. Thanks for the suggestion.
I should have included links in my previous post

Documentary preview and website here

Amazon book review here

Wiki article here
Jason - good point about McVeigh.

Do you ever wonder what kind of person it will be who decides to push the button?


what kind of person it will be who sets off a terrorist dirty bomb?

I think about that a lot. Because I am certain it will happen one day. It's only a matter of time. Mark my words. No don't mark my words. The last time I said that I was so right. I predicted Steve Irwin would die because of his dangerous life style. I said mark my words. Sigh, I miss that guy. He was quite a character.

Maia - thanks for the CNN articles. I'm going to read them shortly.

About the draw Muhammad day. You people got balls! I am surprised such a thing happened here.

Larry - thanks for the article links. I'll look at them too.

I'm thinking it's a little easier for a president of the United States to commandeer the airwaves than for any imam to do so, regardless of circumstances. And I don't recall any Christian preachers condemning McVeigh for doing what he perceived to be God's work.

Jason - Well they could have Obama standing by his side. That would get ratings! LOL The rating machines would blow up. It would be better than the Paris Hilton/Larry King interview (yes that's some sarcasm there lol).

As to Christian preachers condemming McVeigh - wasn't it just a given or "understood" that no Christians agreed with him (well except for the lunatic fringies maybe). I mean it's not like they showed Christians over in some other country jumping up and down with glee.

So did McVeigh. I'm having a hard time coming up with any significant distinction between the two.

Jason - I can come up with many differences but your point is extremely valid in terms of no matter what precautions you take some nut ball job always throws a spanner in the works. So what's the point of bickering of how close a church is to hallowed (using that term loosley) ground? I guess the point for me is to just be like a little bee in the bonnet. The bee is pissed off and he's going to aggravate the hell out of you. If you don't want bees in your bonnet then request an audience with Obama to do a nationwide televised severe smack down of radical Muslims. And that comes from a person who views herself as quite the diplomat (most of the time). Oh but wait. I keep having to remind myself. The poor Iman guy would be assasinated within 24 hours of such an event. Why can't he just say (With Obama standing at his side - televised) "if you are a terrorist - you are not a true Muslim". Hell, if the world is so sensitive that that statement cannot be uttered in the current circumstances then we don't stand a chance.

It's like a powder keg with an already lit fuse creeping ever so surely toward it's payload. And you want to know why I am afraid and antsy and ranting on a cyber site about the merits of conservatism? At least conservatives have a better grip on reality than liberals when it comes to what is actually coming down the pike. Taxing the rich? What is that going to solve? Where are all these rich people? I don't know any of them. Oh wait, I do drive by that gated community "Country Club of the South" on the way to my brother's house. I'd love to live in a gated community with gates and a guard to keep the riff raff out. But at least I get to dream about it and strive for it. If the Democrats get their way - I fear I might have to throw that dream away forever and for my children and their children. Taxing the rich hmmm, I don't see what good that will do. Please don't give me any stats because for every stat you give me I can go to some other cyber site and get stats from just as reliable sources that say the opposite. Right? I have to decide and utilize my judgement from my common sense and personal life experience the best I can. I tend to go in the conservative direction most of the time. But I will continue to be open minded and continue to try to learn new things in this matter. Of course I could be wrong in my attitudes.

I also did some cyber resarch about conservative atheists - not too many out there from what I can tell (not that want it known anyway). I'm sailing off to the Island of Misfits. I am the white elephant with the pink polka dots lol. I wonder if I will ever change my spots?
"Taxing the rich hmmm, I don't see what good that will do. "

First, it's not "Taxing the Rich". Let's remember that they got a tax cut - we all did, ten years ago. This is not "taxing the rich". It's a return to the same tax rates that had been in existence back in the day when the budget was relatively balanced.

Second, it does a LOT of good.
-Taxes are the "income" of the people (meaning all of us). Taxes fund infrasture improvements, education, security, scientific research, police, etc, etc, etc. Without this income, how can we provide these services that benefit our society?

-The rich do not spend money they gain by not paying their share of the taxes. They save it, or they invest it, mostly in foreign investments, not us investments. This "Job Creation" stuff is a hugh myth.
I will leave it to Linda to do the research, but it is out there in droves, including figures from the GEO, the largest single contributor to the current national debt was the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. This is the first time in American history taxes have been cut during a major war. The real tragedy of this is that the wars were fought to increase America's economic power internationally which is soley for the benefit of the uber-rich. When Shrub took office the budget had a surplus and the national debt was about $4 trillion dollars. When he left office it was approaching $11trillion. If under $2trillion was war, and Rethugs cut aid to American Citizens, then we are looking at a whopping $5trillion dollar gift to the Ruling Class while our economy went into the toilet.
I will leave it to Linda to do the research, but it is out there in droves, including figures from the GEO, the largest single contributor to the current national debt was the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy

You just do that Dan. I'll make you proud.
"Taxing the rich hmmm, I don't see what good that will do. "

First, it's not "Taxing the Rich". Let's remember that they got a tax cut - we all did, ten years ago. This is not "taxing the rich". It's a return to the same tax rates that had been in existence back in the day when the budget was relatively balanced.

Well whatever, I don't know much about it. Just that Neal Boortz talks about it a lot and he seems pretty intelligent to me even though he does piss me off sometimes. I'm listening to him right now. He's a Libertarian.
Linda, if you don't know much about it, why do you have such firm opinions about it? If you don't know how economics works, why would you just take somebody's word for it? You should be able to figure out that in an economy where nobody wants to risk their money in job-creating investments, wealthy people have more money to not risk. By lowering their taxes, they have even more money to not risk. By raising their taxes and putting it to use building infrastructure and hiring people who will need to buy things, the government can create the demand the economy needs to reduce the risk of private sector job-creation. This is precisely what Roosevelt did to get us out of the Great Depression. It worked. Only partisan libertarian hacks think it didn't work.
If you don't know how economics works, why would you just take somebody's word for it?

Hi Jason - I missed your post somehow and just now came across it while I was looking for something else.

I really don't understand a lot about how economics work. Very basic knowlege in fact. Supply and demand - that's about it. The reason I have been taking someone else's word for it is because are not all the sources of learning someone else's words?

So to me it seems logical to align yourself with a spokes-person who you can identify yourself with.

I'll give you that perhaps if I would read up on the subject in instead of listening to talk radio and watching CNN and Fox news and surfing on the web, I might bump into something that causes me to give pause.

Yes, Roosevelt got us out of the depression and is the reason my grandparents were loyal Democrats and I am sure they would not have been surprised to find Roosevelt sitting to the left of God when they entered through the pearly gates. I don't believe in heaven but you know what I mean I hope. I'm just making a point. Sheesh, some people get so literal sometimes (not you).

But I look at the way things are going in the world today - riots in Greece and France - European bail out of Greece, gas prices going to almost $5 for a bit, stock market melt down out of the blue with no satisfactory explanation - I think that happened one day in the early summer? - not sure. Let's see, what else....
46 banks have closed down in GA since 2008, or maybe it was 76 banks (can't recall for sure - heard it on the news on the radio the other day), the young in the country being totally bombarded with the message that how sexy you look is all that really matters anymore, banking institutions not following sound lending practices causing the nationwide housing melt down and financial crisis (Clinton the Democrat got that ball rolling from what I understand) - empty houses all over my subdivision, I'm the only white face at the local grocery store - nothing wrong with that I know but it is a little intimidating sometimes - I do feel a little hostility sometimes from non-whites - not much but I get white hostility too come to think of it - the other day..never mind lol, anyway to continue... dry runs - fighter jets escorting 747's into New York JFK - people being on the dry run vehicles being checked for RADIOLOGICAL residue, explosives intercepted - from Yemen - Saudi's are the ones who alerted us (they want that oil money - not going there), gay children killing themselves, bullying in the schools is horrible - I talked to a kid about this a couple weeks ago and I told them it was not like that when I was in school - yes I got bullied a little now and then but holy smokes - I could not believe what this kid was telling me (well the kid was 19 years old - but a kid to me for sure lol - I'm almost 50), a close family member was laid off a couple months ago and is so depressed they can barely get off the couch for any reason other than eating and pissing, and I look at the way things are going in the world and I am just completely fucking overwhelmed with bewilderment.

When you think that the wrold is 4.5 billion years old what is this? It's been what? 150 years since the industrial revolution - it's seems like the industrial revolution led to great things for a few humans but for the majority of the humans on the planet - its the same old suffering shit day in day - out. Oh and don't forget "the bomb". The industrial revolution led to the creation of the nuke - the nuke - there you go - we now have the capability to destory the planet and every one on it. Gosh I can't get that South Park episode out of my head. I feel like we all exist in a continuing state of denial but only because that is our only choice.

THIS 150 years is a flash in the pan, a miniscule streak in the night sky of billions of oblivious star systems. What was before? War war war. What was during? War war war. What is now? War war war. What is our hope? Not God. We are atheists.

What is the point other than the mental masturbation I am participaing in at this very moment and whatever other distractions of pleasure I can partake in the course of may days. I mean, sure it's great - walking the dogs - glorying in the beauty of the pinkish glow of the pre-dusk late October lighting. I guess this is the point. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we shall die. Sound good to me.

I calmly sat back folded my hands together to allow more thoughts but then decided I have gone on long enough.

Sorry for the rant.
Linda, it's true that most of our learning comes from other people, but we should be discriminating in our sources. Not all of our teachers are on the same page or have the same noble intentions. Getting one's economics lessons from Fox News is likely a disaster. Rupert Murdoch does not want you to know how the economy works. He just wants you to be afraid so you can be controlled.

Thus the laundry list of fears you presented in your rant. Yes, it can be overwhelming, particularly if you let "the news" skew your perceptions of how common bad news is. It's really not that common, but if it's not bad news, it's not considered news, for the most part. If it's routine, it's certainly not considered news, by definition. So when things are going OK for most people most of the time, that's not news. With the constant bombardment of sensationalist news from the ubiquitous news outlets, you have to work pretty hard just to remember that normalcy is everywhere. And it's not just Fox News I'm talking about here. All news organizations emphasize bad news.

It's also true that for most of human history, almost everybody was grindingly poor. There are a lot more people now, and most of them are grindingly poor, but something like 20% of humanity is relatively affluent, by historical standards. That used to be limited to the families of monarchs. Yes, there are still wars and great human misery abounds, but going from less than 1% of humanity having a decent life to around 20% is a huge accomplishment. I'm not suggesting a Pollyanna attitude is in order, but dwelling on the negative isn't helpful either.
All i have to add is this


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