We are out of step from the rest of the world. Almost every western nation has it at 18. They realize that you can't call soemone too imature to make an adult decision and then call them an adult at the same time.  18 can join the military, can get married, OWN A GUN and own proptery but can't drink!  A lot of people like to point out that it prevents car accsidents. I would like to point out the number of alohal related car accsidents have been going up since 1998 and the number of alcohal deaths related to alohcal abuse amoung teens has also gone up becuase they drink in private. Really all they did is take drinking out of the public squear for young people. They still drink Deaths still happen ehtier way.  The way we have it now we are discrediting the law and adulthood in the eyes of young adults that break the drinking age law.





At least with lowering the drinking age to 18 we can start an agressive education compagian to encourage SAFE drinking at hightschools and colleges.  Stastsiclly speaking in other european countries they have done this with sex and the amount of teen pregnancy went down.  They probably still hvaing sex but its safe sex. That is the point. We gotten to the point of a society that we can be a little bad and deal with it.


Really i don't think the government should tell anyone want to put in there body. Its to them to make that choice and they are liable if that choice back fires.




I also would like to point out freedom isn't safe.

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" Quite scary actually."


Yes it is scary. I am hope one day people will just wake and realize you can't force morality on people.

morality is a product of social influence. your parents forced morality on yoo. you know how we dont all run around killing each other? thats cause we forced morality on people. why do you got to school, or pay taxes, or listen to your parents? because they forced their beliefs on you when you were little and you internalized them.


travis, i dont know what society you live in, but modern western democracy is like a million times less puritanical than say, the Puritans.

I disagree.  People don't have to be told not to run around killing each other. 

Says the person born in 20th century western democracy.

You do understand why its called the social contract right?

Of course people still DO run around killing each other, just less of them than before.

I think being an atheist is better. yes I heard of them.
So the two are mutually exclusive?  Are you trying to set a record for the largest number of idiotic things one person can say?
Unless one kills someone while drunk, say while driving, drinking itself is like masturbation. It is not hurting anyone else and it isn't aNyone else's business. Theists do tend to be overly concerned w things like this. This type of concern for morality is vastly different than concern over whether people kill other people.

To my mind they are so different that there should be separate words for them. I suspect that we have theists to thank that "morality" entails both.

"Do unto others..." is basicly quite reasonable.. No one want to be ripped off, lied to, beat up, or much les killed. So one should know not to do these things to others. Only someone with a problem tho would have any problem with anything that any adult chooses to consume. And for all the reasons listed at the beginning of this thread, it seems reasonable to figure people to be an adult at 18.
in my opinion 16 year olds should get to drink. ive never seen an 18 year old who was just so much more well behaved than a 16 year old. although to be honest, making it illegal under 21 just makes it so much more fun to do.
I guess John D, when you park in spaces meant for women, pregnant or not, you are saying you have no mother, wife, sister or daughter that you would like an able body man to make their life a little easier by opening a door, letting them park first or any other gentlemanly action. If you were a Christian I would ask what kind of Christian you are, but since you are an atheist, I am going to ask what kind of a human being are you? And Yes, one day it will be your mother, wife, sister or daughter, that can barely walk going to the supermarket to get food to feed her family and some jerk is going to make it just a little bit harder on her that day.
I guess he never paid attention when his wife was pregnant.
what i hear you saying is that we should treat different gender's differently, since you said pregnant or not. do you understand that chivalry is a symptom of sexist patriarchal society? when i see Gloria Steinham at dinner tomorrow i'll tell her Tony Lester poops on gender equality.
Gender equality... Does it matter?. I still open the door, to women and men. What society do we live in that we are just rude to others? My mother did not force me to be civilized and act as a person. Yes, people do abuse it but it is usually the young kid parking in the Handicap spot not the senior citizen.

"I guess John D, when you park in spaces meant for women, pregnant or not, you are saying you have no mother, wife, sister or daughter that you would like an able body man to make their life a little easier by opening a door, letting them park first or any other gentlemanly action."


I see nothing about men in here, perhaps you should say what you mean next time. I think any person ever would like an able bodied person to make their life a little easier. Btw, you excluded women by saying gentlemanly action. Women cant be nice too? Perhaps you really do believe in gender equality but you are just incapable of using gender neutral language, I dont know. Whatever you meant to say, your post was full of patriarchal gender oppression.



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