This time I am in argument with my mother over "under god" being in the pledge and how we are disrespectful to our country for not saying it. I am going insane with people confusing patriotism with or pledge that was altered in 1954 and violates our first amendment. I am very much in agreement with the rest of our allegiance; just not the "god" part. Any other rants out there?

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Porky knows how it was.
If Porky says it this way, then it should be this way!
Watching this as a kid, I never even noticed the absence of "under God", nor the fact that the flag only has 48 stars (as Alaska and Hawaii weren't yet states). 

One nation, yes. And divisible by religion.


It disrespects our country to have those damn words in there.
I have never said the pledge in my life. My nutso Jehovahs Witness family was against it, I had no idea why but I liked being different and the only one in class that just stood there in school. As an adult I am glad I never had to do it, I wouldn't mind my kids saying it if they would take the "in god" out but I have serious doubts on that one. When I was little kids thought I was weird but being in situations as an adult and simply not following the sheeplike crowds we have in this country gets you some dirty looks. But that's OK, I just smile and remind myself that I am better than them ;) hehe

Haley, if you would like to read some history of the JW battle with the Pledge, look on the Internet for two US Supreme Court decisions: the 1940 Minersville case and the 1943 Barnette case.

The 1940 decision caused a backlash by "patriots".

The 1943 decision, which reversed the 1940 decision, described some of the violence by the "patriots" and the school authorities, and brought forth some judicial prose that became famous.

I find decisions by searching on SCOTUS followed by a case name. ("SCOTUS" stands for "Supreme Court of the United States" and the Internet accepts the lower case "scotus.) Try the following:

scotus minersville // scotus 1940 minersville // scotus barnette // scotus 1943 barnette.

Me? I've read almost every scotus First Amendment decision.

Here's some of that 1943 decision prose, by J. Robert Jackson:

"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.

"Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."

Have some irony: Many elders insist on saying the pledge, yet the Minersville court spoke of the Pledge as a way to bring children into the political culture. Well, some elders do have second childhoods.

Agreed. Another form of indoctrination. Like there aren't perfectly wonderful nations on the planet where it would be a privilege to live.

I had to say the Pledge in private school. Also, I had to make a pledge to the bible and to the flag.  It was all part of the chapel service we went to.

Here's a link to the pledges.
Pledge to the Christian flag and the bible?  wth?
Yeah, did you see the site with the pledges? At least I didn't have to do the lamb one. Haha
To me, the real irony of the pledge, is that there are those who demand people recite it, even if against their will, to prove how free those people are who are compelled to say it.



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