This time I am in argument with my mother over "under god" being in the pledge and how we are disrespectful to our country for not saying it. I am going insane with people confusing patriotism with or pledge that was altered in 1954 and violates our first amendment. I am very much in agreement with the rest of our allegiance; just not the "god" part. Any other rants out there?

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"Bad Religion" will be performing at the Reason Rally on March 24, 2012! Head over to the Reason Rally website for more information on the largest gathering of atheists, agnostics, Humanists, and secular Americans ever in the world.
Thanks for the info!

Only Americans are dumb enough to pledge fealty to a textile.


Ambrose Bierce:  flag: N. a colored rag borne above troops and hoisted on forts and
ships. it appears to serve the same purpose as certain signs that one
sees and vacant lots in london -- "rubbish may be shot here."

I cringe when my daughter says the pledge but if course I bite my tongue since she's only 5.

How did I miss this one? It's easy for a theist to confuse patriotism with religion. They are not the same and your Abrahamic religion has nothing to do with American politics, either in laws or the founding of the country. People continue to claim our country was founded upon religious freedom as if that nasty old king George was suppressing religion in England. You just do not find any of this in the history books. It's a myth.

I'm ex-military and am just as confused by those who fly the American flag every day on their property. They have every right to do so, it's just that I do not understand this at a private residence. Others tell me they are being patriotic. My view is let them do it if they want to, but not me. I don't see the point.

About those two words in the Pledge:

A book by historian Kevin Kruse titled One Nation Under God is about to be published (April, and Amazon will have it.) that tells the Machiavellian story.

According to a pre-publication newspaper story, Kruse says that early during the 1930s Depression, some business leaders feared that Americans would lose faith in capitalism. They hired influential ministers to give sermons that linked religion and patriotism.

They gave those sermons but proposed no specific remedy. Those two words appeared in some drafts of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address and in those times meant "god willing". They surfaced after WW2 when the Cold War with the atheistic USSR started.

>They hired influential ministers to give sermons that linked religion and patriotism.

Even back then they were practiced in the art of deception.

Those business leaders must have read Babbit.

...I am very uncomfortable, as I am sure all of us are, in having to say those words  in the pledge.

SCOTUS in 1943 ruled that no one has to say either those words or any other part of the Pledge.

Federal appellate courts have ruled that no one has to stand while others are saying the Pledge. This issue might go to SCOTUS if other appellate courts rule differently.

Theists and other scoundrels have long pretended to own patriotism. They use it to conceal their misdeeds.

I've only been speaking English for 5 decades, so I don't understand all of the nuances of the language. Maybe someone can explain.

What dies it mean to pledge allegiance? Does it mean we will do what it says? Do flags speak? And how do you pledge - is that the same as taking an oath, to swear? What are the consequences if you stop giving allegiance, whatever allegiance is?

And what does it mean to pledge allegiance to a country? How is that different to pledging allegiance to the republic? Does it mean one will obey? Specifically, who do we obey? Which politicin, or which officer, or is it just the laws? What happened to freedom?

The whole thing sounds like Jabberwocky to me. If we are just saying, "I will be loyal and defend America unless it means I need to sacrifice something or be a little uncomfortable" why dont we just say that?

In the Army I had to memorize the Military Code of Conduct. It started
"I am an Anerican, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense". At least that I understoond.

The pledge of allegiance sounds like gibberish.

At least the "with liberty and justice for all rich straight Christian white men" part makes sense.

If you make a pledge, are you stating you are forgoing your liberty?

The only pledge I'm going to make is to preserve my virginity until . . . oh, wait.



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