The economy in the United States is in a collapse.  The Capitalist system does not work anymore; banks have become more powerful than our politicians.  The government now has a policy based around Fear and Greed.  The rich are getting
richer and more powerful, while the great masses of America wallow in poverty.

Must we continue to exist in this passive state, only living to serve the rich and powerful?  Or do we, the great masses, stand up against the policies of Fear, and Greed, and
God?  We must break the bonds that
separate us, we must pull down the centers of Greed and Fear and we must pull
down the houses of God.  

These borders are created to separate us into individuals where we can be controlled easier.

We must stand up, against the tyranny of the centers of Greed, and Fear, and God; quoting John Adams: “People should not fear government, government should fear people.” 
Once we stand up to Fear, to Greed, to God, we will become united!

This being said, I advocate the collapse of the Capitalist system and the foundation of the United Socialist Federal Republic, in which the government will exist to serve the people. 
Capitalism is Dead.  We must put
it out of it’s misery and move on toward Socialism. (to view the 19 pages of discussion)

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I wonder what what ( if any) kind of fraud they have.  That takes a lot out of our economy as well.

There's also the virtual slave labor and black box economics.

Yep, just as the 'economy' of Germany was at its strongest while it was trying to anhilate a huge chunk of its population... A 'strong' economy is about the least reliable indicator to assess quality of life.

I know Wikipedia is not the most realible of sources for definitions, but it was the first hit and summed up what I see happening to our country very nicely.



Fascism (pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme Sorelian syndicalist political views along with nationalism.[7][8][9] Though normally described as being on the far right, there is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both the left and the right.[10][11][12][7][13]

Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.[14] They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism.[14] Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.[15][16]

They advocate the creation of a single-party state.[17] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.[18] They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[19]

Fascism rejects the concepts of egalitarianism, materialism, and rationalism in favor of action, discipline, hierarchy, spirit, and will.[20] They oppose liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being exclusive economic class-based movements.[21] Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity.[22] They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based elite of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence.[23] Fascism perceives conservatism as partly valuable for its support of order in society but disagrees with its typical opposition to change and modernization.[24] Fascism presents itself as a solution to the perceived benefits and disadvantages of conservatism by advocating state-controlled modernization that promotes orderly change while resisting the dangers to order in society of pluralism and independent initiative.[24]"


We do not have a government that exist for the benefit of it's citizens.  We have one party masqerading as two that do the bidding of a Ruling Corporate Elite.  With the Supreme Court ruling for "Citizens United" that Cabal now has the 'personhood".  They can spend more money on elections than any individual or group and don't have to report how that money is spent.  If this seems like hyperbole, I suggest you read this to understand that if very nearly happened in the 1930's, and the Bush family and there financial monster USB were at the center of it.


This is not conspiracy BS.  This is documented in our own congressional record and the story was researced and backed up by British Public Radio.


Obama is just a kinder, gentler face for the same agenda.  It makes it palatible for the liberals for a few years, then destroys anything that may be progress in the next campaign of fear and war mongering.  Nazism has elements of Socialism in order to create a citizenry that operates for the benefit of the Nazi/Corporate elite.  It uses all of the fear and hate tactics of Hitler's Third Reich so it embraces the racism and bigotry of conservatism.


If we are a socialist nation, it is corporate socialism that is the strongest element of what we get when it is all said and done.

Please take time to read the piece on the Bush Family legacy of the attempted fascist coup.  The Ford family and GE were two of the biggest cash contributors.  When US troops arrived in Berlin at the end of WWII, they were able to repair their trucks from parts from many German military vehicles.  They were both running Ford engines.  The the finacial and very secret side of the Bush Cabal, USB run by the Walker family, as in Geo. Herbert Walker Bush had their US assets froven for two yrs during WWII because they wouldn't stop moving money for the Third Reich.  This is not something frivolous.  They have been planning this for generations.  Pappy Bush remains a power behind the CIA as well as the most frequent Chairman of the Board of the Carlisle Group, the military investment fund that can only be joined by invitiation and controls some of our largest military suppliers.  Cheney has spent several careers as SecDef, State Department and VP securing the channels of military procurment so there have been more contractors than US troops in Iraq since it began and Haliburton, KRB and their subsideraries have swindled many, many billions from US and the Iraqi people.  It makes it easier to see how we have reached this point where its hard to call us anything else but a Fascist nation.

I’m a proud communist (Maoist). I stand in complete solidarity with the Maoists in India and against the fascist state of India who‘re currently engaged in the genocidal Operation Green Hunt.

I have read through this whole thread and haven’t seen a proper definition of genuine socialism or communism.

Socialism is the phase just after the common people have seized state power, the phase between capitalism and communism in which the wealth of society, which is currently concentrated in the hands of the capitalist class, is re-distributed and the means of production (factories, farms etc..) are being placed into common ownership. There's no such thing as a permanent socialism. You’ll either have leadership (the ideas that people are led by) with proper vision to lead humanity to communism, a -->world<-- free of all forms of exploitation and oppression, a world without classes, without states, without money, where goods are being produced 100% for need and the means of production are held in common.), or the forces created by allowing individuals or groups of individuals (even the revolutionary state itself) will take society back down the capitalist road.

Labor is the only thing that produces wealth and under capitalism the vast majority of that wealth is legally stolen by the capitalist class and used to further solidify their power over the common people. (We live under the dictatorship of the capitalist class, see my post on this site entitled Democracy or Dictatorship?) During genuine socialism this wealth is beginning to be redistributed. Socialism is a violent, bloody, and turbulent period. It would be fantastic if it were not the case, but there will never be a time when the capitalist class will say “oh, here’s this group talking about bring forth a new way, lets just give them the keys and see how they do.” No, they (and their allies) will fight to the death for their “right” to exploit the Earth and its inhabitants. They will do all they can to create a “the sky is falling” atmosphere and the first time someone’s falafel is a bit overcooked, or there’s a shortage of something at the store, or any number of things that is bound to happen when society is going through such a turbulent period, they will succeed in winning a following in favor of going back to the old ways. Bottom line, you will not succeed in digging up the roots of the capitalist system, placing the means of production into common ownership, unless you’re at least prepared to do so with armed force. The capitalist class must be suppressed out of existence (as a class, not as individuals).

Furthermore socialism will not spring up all around the world at once. It will exist only in one part of the world and it will be surrounded by hostile forces. You must have a People’s Army to protect what you’ve won, otherwise capitalist forces elsewhere in the world will easily crush you and take all that you’ve won. Genuine socialism has only existed two times in the capitalist era, in the USSR from 1917-1956 and in China from 1949-1976. These revolutions both achieved great things, but were reversed by the forces of the old order, and by the leadership as glorious as it was, running up against the limits of their understandings. There were real errors made in these attempts at revolution, and no one in their right mind should advocate that we look at Marxism-Leninism-Maoism as a doctrine, but rather it should be looked at as a science in which we learn from our mistakes and forge a new synthesis on the way forward based upon the current conditions humanity is facing.

In order to stand a chance of defeating the capitalist class dictatorship you must have leadership with proper vision. Many bad things have been done in the name of socialism and communism. Avoid like the plague any communist party that does not educate far and wide about the real dangers of the vanguard turning into it’s opposite, a force for exploitation and oppression. I encourage people who’re serious about changing the world to study the most advanced struggle against the capitalist system that’s in existence today, that which is being led by the Communist Party of India (Maoist). A good place to start would be by reading Arundhati Roy’s (herself not a communist..yet :) epic piece entitled “Walking with the Comrades” available online free for the searching, here is an excerpt from that piece:

"We passed the house of the Superintendent of Police (SP), which
I recognized from my last visit. He was a candid man,
the SP: “See Ma’am, frankly speaking this problem
can’t be solved by us police or military. The problem
with these tribals is they don’t understand greed. Unless
they become greedy there’s no hope for us. I have
told my boss, remove the force and instead put a TV
in every home. Everything will be automatically sorted


Also I will gladly answer any questions people may have about genuine socialism and communism..hell I’ll even answer your questions about phony communism too :) In the meantime if you want to learn about the glorious achievements of the revolution in China I encourage you to hear Professor Dongping Han’s BookTV talk, also online free for the searching.
Your piece is very enlightening and I thank you :)

I have been told--but now that I look back on it, it is more being 'fed'--that Communism is just a step on the path towards Socialism, that Countries are Communist and when all countries are Communist, then we can move towards Socialism.

But what I want is the world to become a single state, with out borders between countries and in countries. The various world leaders make their country Communist. Then they create a council and the council will oversee the opening of borders and that transportation is flowing. Then the council and world leaders would step down from power creating a classless society in which the people work for the betterment of all.

What type of Communist would I be? Most likely a very Idealistic one :)
I might be a globalist. Though one that is Idealistic.

But for those who follow Communism, who isn't Idealistic, right?
There is a tremendous amount (understatement) of distortion heaped upon the communist project. The majority of people have had their education about communism as it has been filtered through the lens of the capitalist class. This is not different than going to a preacher to learn about atheism.

Communists want a world like I previously described it, and probably like the world you have envisioned as well. There has never been a communist society in well-recorded history, definitely not in the capitalist era. The only two socialist societies that have existed (USSR 1917-1956 and China 1949-1976) were far, far away from achieving communism and they’d be the first to tell you that. Communism will not be achieved in any of our lifetimes. In today’s world it is impossible to achieve communism except on a world-wide basis.

We cannot achieve communism and there still be a state, at least as we know one today. As long as there is a state that signifies that society is still divided into classes. A state is simply the means by which one class rules over others.

Someone who wants socialism in the whole world (which would be communism, or very very close to communism) is a communist (internationalist, or as the Maoist music group ¡Outernational! would say an “outernationalist” :). Someone who -->wants<-- socialism just in one country, and/or only for “your” people is a nationalist socialist, like the Nazis. There is a HUGE difference in having the goal of liberating all of humanity and just looking out for “your” people. It is the conditions that capitalism poses upon us that forces us to have the immediate goal of just seizing power in one area, but the goal is not to horde the resources in that area for just “your” people. The goals are to produce enough goods to be able to have the people in the liberated area be able to live their lives with dignity (a guaranteed right to eat, to shelter, to health care etc.. the principle of “from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs“), to be able to protect what you’ve won, and to give all of your excess to aid revolutionary movements elsewhere in the world.

You say “various world leaders make their country communist” (by that I take it that you mean socialist as it seems that you’ve got the two mixed up) and this is not a correct orientation regarding the role of leadership. You don’t become the leader of a revolutionary movement by standing at a podium, pounding your fist, yelling, and then everyone just does as you say (I tried this and it didn’t work : ). You become the leader of a revolutionary movement because the ideas that you’re putting forth express the will of the people. The role of leadership is not to make decisions on behalf of the people, but rather to best enable the people to carry out what must be done. There is always leadership (the ideas that people are led by) in some form. Here I won’t go into all of the reasons that revolutionary leadership takes the form of one person (whereas capitalist leadership comes at you from many angles), but one big reason is that when the bullets start flying, when you’ve began to really challenge the power of the capitalist dictatorship, there should be no room for confusion on what is the way forward. Confusion equals deaths, confusion equals demoralization and overall it’s stabbing the masses in the back. You need a highly organized and disciplined force in order to defeat the capitalist dictatorship, anything else, as history has shown, will just not do. If we rise up only to be crushed by the capitalist class, who will use the turbulence we’ve created and us as an example to show the masses what a “mistake” it is to try anything but capitalism again, then we best not rise up at all.

It will not be the leaders who make a country socialist. It will be the conscious act of millions of people who‘ve been enabled by leadership with proper vision to carry out what must be done. It’ll be through having a leader who knows how to properly apply the Mass Line (please let wikipedia save me from carpal tunnel here : ), not tailing the masses (which would lead right back to capitalism), but not making decisions on their behalf. If you make too many decisions on behalf of the masses, you’ll soon find that you’ll no longer be the leader of the revolutionary movement (see current situation in Nepal - also let me recommend a search at archive dot org for the documentary called Eight Glorious Years of the Great Nepalese People‘s War).

I’m glad that someone appreciates what I’ve wrote here. If you wonder why you don’t hear from more communists, well it’s about the same reason you don’t see many atheists going into a church and trying to take them all on in a debate. I need to type a small book to even begin to properly get into these matters. I’ve done a lot of work at trying to condense tons of knowledge into as few words as I can. It really helps me when I’m asked specific questions…so please more questions : )
What happened to the USSR after 1956 and China after 1976?
My teacher stresses that a Communist Country can only go so far before it must turn Capitalist. Many of my classmates say that Communism is good in theory but not in practice.

Communism is the best system for humanity. It liberates us, it makes us equal. While in Capitalism, Greed is the most important thing. Equality, Freedom, Liberation means nothing, only the will of the Divine Dollar.

Capitalism has made America very arrogant. We should not be so. We are humans and we should be working together for the betterment of all. Humanity should be united, not separated.

You and I are alike; we are open thinkers, informing and educating the public. I don't know if we will become the leaders, or if we will inform others that will become the leaders.

It should not be about becoming the Hero and Leader of the Revolution, but it should be about opening the eyes of the masses of the world. Education.

But, I think you'll agree with me on one point. If--no when-- the Revolution comes about the Capitalists won't go quietly. It will be a long, drawn out war. It will be very bloody, I predict at least a 1/4 of the country will be lost. And if it occurs in the United States it will turn into a World War, correct?
Again I need to stress that there cannot be a communist country. The goal of communists is to bring about socialism, communism is a far away goal that we're aiming for of course, but you can't have communism in one country.

The USSR was devastated in WW2. They lost some 30,000,000 people in that war! And beyond that a lot of their infrastructure was destroyed. Needless to say that this had a major effect on the first socialist revolution that ever happened. This is something like if the Wright Brothers attempted their first flight in the midst of a hail storm and then people like your teacher coming along and saying, “ah, you see that, see we must remain on the ground forever.” Of course the war alone was not the only thing that reversed the revolution in the USSR, it was also reversed by serious errors made by Stalin, the whole Lysenko debacle (and a generally non-scientific approach on some key matters), the silencing of dissent, the concentration on building heavy machinery, the fact that it was thought that their revolution would automatically lead to revolutions throughout Europe, which it did not. They became isolated and give an example as to why you cannot build communism in one country alone. The rest of the world will not trade goods with you, if so, certainly not fairly. They will not share technology with you and will generally do all they can to make everyone hate you. Once you’re isolated they will easily be able to send in their armed forces to crush you, unless of course they can just fund opposition forces within your country and restore capitalism that way.

In China, as in the USSR you have to take into account that these were “backward” countries. Both were semi-feudal before their revolutions. When the quality of life of the average citizens rose with socialism many found comfortable resting places on the socialist road and were done with the whole revolution bit. This is something that has been summed up by contemporary communists and we now know that Mao’s teachings on how the revolution must continue under socialism are critical. In 1966 Mao saw what had played out in the USSR start to play out in China and launched the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. He encouraged people to rebel against any Party members or forces that were standing in the way of the advance of the revolution. Forces that Mao had identified as “capitalist roaders,” those who had found comfortable resting places on the socialist road, those who only wished to see China become a “great” country, and people from the more privileged families before the revolution led a coup against Mao and led the People’s Army to silence and murder those who were putting forth the line of Mao.

It is much more complicated than this. But one need consider that the revolution in China doubled the life expectancy there. Before the revolution women would have their feet bound (broken) in order to supposedly make them more sexually appealing to men. The slogan popular in China was “A woman married is like a pony bought, I will ride her and whip her as I please”. Bound feet was done away with after the revolution and  the previous phase was replaced with  “women hold up half the sky.” These people lived in hell before the revolution, life expectancy was about 32 years, and with all the improvements that had been made many felt as if they were in heaven already and couldn’t understand why the struggle needed to continue. Mao attempted to warn the people that they were heading down the capitalist road, but when perhaps the most evil person who has ever existed, Deng Xiaoping (spit) put forth his line, many people gravitated to it and with the coup and suppression of the revolutionary forces, capitalism was restored. It was restored though with propaganda that led many people to believe that they were still on the socialist road. A plan was laid out to first make China a “great” country through capitalist production methods and then they’d better be able to continue down the socialist road, but of course we see what happened, it simply led to the rise of a new capitalist class in China which is “communist“ in name only.

I don’t even begin to pretend that I’ve properly summed up why those revolutions were reversed. It is impossible to do so without going into detail even about things like how life was like there before the revolutions. I also am no expert myself on those revolutions as my work has been concentrated on applying MLM to the current and vastly changed situation in the world today and making revolution in a fully capitalist country (which has never been done) rather than a semi-feudal one. I just hope that I’ve helped you understand how it is possible for a socialist revolution to be reversed and that it is not inevitable that the revolution will be reversed. Of course, until we’ve reached communism there will be forces in play that can lead us back to capitalism. With leadership with proper vision, an accurate synthesis, the willingness to learn from our previous mistakes, looking at MLM as a science and not a doctrine, those forces can be overcome. 

As for your classmates, none of them, nor anyone has ever seen communism in practice. This is akin to someone who’d never seen a plane fly before telling the Wright Brothers that they should’ve just gave up on their work if they didn‘t get it right the first couple of times.

As for greed: A lot of people believe that the problem with capitalism is just that people are greedy. This is not true. You cannot have capitalism without greed. Greed is rewarded in capitalism. Those who’re not as greedy are pushed aside by those who are. Under capitalism greed is even linked to people’s survival instincts. Human nature changes based upon the conditions we face, but under socialism there will still be those who’re trained to be greedy. The thing is though, that the mechanisms by which greed can cause harm to others are being removed. If food, shelter, clothes, heath care etc.. are being produced for need rather than for profits, if someone tried to sell you some tomatoes they’d be laughed at and pointed to where they were being grown. They could try to horde all the tomatoes they could get their hands on and it wouldn’t allow them to achieve any sort of elevated status in society. In fact it would get them shunned because the people would understand that it is their labor that has produced the tomatoes and that that person is causing them to have to do more labor.

Some say then, well why would anyone work if they had a guaranteed right to eat, shelter etc..? Well for one, you would have the understanding that I just mentioned. You would understand that your labor was going to contribute to the betterment of all of humanity. You would have the weight of society upon you compelling you to work. People also would not be forced to do the same job day in and day out. People would be trained to do many different kinds of work. Regardless, I’d much rather work so that a lazy person could be lazy and live a life with dignity rather than so that a capitalist can buy fancy jewelry and gold clubs etc.. The capitalist also doesn’t do any work, unless you think that counting stolen money is work.

It is hard to imagine that a revolution occurring anywhere in the territory now commonly known as the United States  (I call it the frontyard of the empire, or just the frontyard for short), will not set off revolutions elsewhere in the world. But capitalist forces will simply regroup somewhere else. But I don’t believe that revolution will occur first here. The frontyard of an empire is the hardest place to make revolution. People here are bought off with the wealth that has been extracted from the rest of the world by the imperialists. The imperialists like to keep their frontyard looking “nice” so as to show the workers in the rest of the world that they “just aren’t working hard enough.”  When fact is that it doesn’t matter how hard they work, the vast majority of the wealth that their labor produces is going to end up in the bank accounts of the imperialists anyways. The frontyard is a watered down capitalism.

Socialist revolution will very, very likely not occur within the entire frontyard at once. There’s no way to predict it exactly this far ahead of time, but my current hypothesis is that the territory west of the front range of the Rockies up to and possibly including parts of western Canada and down to and possibly including Mexico will become the people’s territory, however it could be much smaller than that, it could just be west of the Cascades or just along the Mexican border, who knows? I imagine that there will be an exodus out of the South, especially among the Black and Latino population there, when things start to go down, but we need mountain bases to be able to most effectively engage in protracted People’s War. This poses a challenge as the majority of oppressed people’s now live in urban areas, but historically successful revolutions have occurred by surrounding the cities from the countryside.

Let me tell you that you’re very unlikely to convince your teacher that socialism is what we need. It is very hard to convince anyone that we need socialism unless they’ve experienced poverty. They have a very different life experience. I’m not saying that it is impossible and that we shouldn’t try to convince people from the upper strata that we need socialism and many will become our allies especially as the movement progresses, but your best bet by far is to take communist thought to the most exploited and oppressed masses. In the frontyard it will not be White people making $12+ dollars an hour who will make up the backbone of the revolution. It will be Black people, Latina/o’s, Native peoples, minorities in general, women, gay people, prisoners and former prisoners, homeless people, etc.. not those who’re basically only exploited in the workplace, but it’ll be those who catch hell everyday as a result of the workings of the capitalist system as a whole who will be the driving force of the revolutionary movement in the frontyard.

I typed this at 5 something AM after only sleeping a couple of hours. I hope it’s coherent, but feel free to ask me to clarify or expand on anything here.
Capitalist system does work!!   veary good in usa all ways Move!!




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