There's zero proof that being gay is any morally different from straight. So why articles like this?

A gay couple is suing the Roman Catholic Diocese of Worcester over claims it refused to sell them a mansion because of fears they would use it to host gay weddings.
James Fairbanks, 57, and Alain Beret, 59, filed their discrimination suit on Monday in Worcester Superior Court.


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That fits! Let me think ... there is the fool in love, the fool who drinks himself to death, the fool who thinks he is the center of the universe, the fool who thinks his friends are  better than your friends, the fool who thinks his god is stronger than your god ... oh well, point well made.

Great chart, Grinning Cat!

To listen to the fundamentalist preachers, Christianity is about successfully fighting off your homosexual urges. Hey, I hate to break it to them, but if you've got homosexual urges you are NOT heterosexual, and you are simply being dishonest with yourself, and to your (future) spouse. It can lead to a lot of heartache for everyone - including or especially children who would not be born if everyone was honest - mostly with themselves.

They don't seem to notice that Jesus did not have one word to say about gays, although there is reference in John to "the disciple who Jesus loved", who is said to have reclined on Jesus' chest during the Last supper. I daresay that if Jesus himself did that in most of their churches, he'd be thrown out for promoting his "HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA".

It's as though they're portraying a bible that is nothing more than a manual on how not to be gay.

Since few Christians actually read their bibles, they seem to go along with this without question. I wonder what they'd have to say about David and Jonathan, or a re-enactment of it, where they were so excited to see each other, that they tore their clothes off, ran into each others' arms, and wept.

Even Leviticus is worded oddly: "Do not lie with a woman as with MANKIND." There seems to be a difference in number here. Just how does anyone lie with "mankind"? Even back then, there were hundreds of millions of people within "mankind" - no one would have sex with all of them.

In Paul's writings, the mention of men "burning with lust" for each other, or women, is prefaced with "For this reason, god caused..." So, their God MAKES people gay when they're straight? How does this fit in with "God hates...."?

1 Corinthians 7:1-9

1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.


Sorry, but it doesn't appear that Paul wrote anything about men burning with passions for each other.

This passage from 1 Corinthians seems to say that a marriage without sex is not a marriage.

This isn't the passage I was talking about. What I was talking about was from Romans, chapter 1:

1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Taken from  Skeptics annotated bible

It is clear that "for this cause" God turned them and their women gay.

Not at all. 1 Corinthians says it is better to stay celibate than to marry, but it is better to marry than to fornicate with a bunch of women. The Bible wouldn't be that hard to understand if people just read it like a chapter from any other book -- from the beginning. Romans 1:16-27:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first,and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,being understood by the things that are made,even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that,when they knew God,they glorified him not as God,neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations,and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise,they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,and to birds,and fourfooted beasts,and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts,to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie,and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator,who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men,leaving the natural use of the woman,burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Paul was talking about either the Greeks or Romans, and about prostitution and pederasty. It didn't say God turned them into gays, it says they turned away from God and onto each other.

Just how does anyone lie with "mankind"? ... no one would have sex with all of them.

The Leviticus proscription is often translated "Do not lie with a man as with womankind", but the actual Hebrew is singular for both, more like "as with a woman". It could be translated more literally, "With a male do not lie-with the lyings-with of a woman; it is an abomination."

The best interpretation I've heard is "Don't compare a male partner to a woman; appreciate him for who he is!"

Leviticus 18:22

American Standard Version/King James Version

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Young's Literal Tranlation

And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].


Feel free to disagree with the Bible, but I don't see how much clearer it could get. Playing around with the semantics of "mankind" is like Bill Clinton playing around with "is".


It may be conceivable that male could lie with a male not as he lies with a woman (i.e. pederasty), but even that's a bit of a stretch.

It's very clear that the Bible disapproves of homosexuality.  But most of the Bible is clearly a crock of shit. :)

It's inconsistent application of scripture, the way so many Christians have chosen to latch onto homosexuality as TEH MOST HORRIBLEST THING EVAR when, yes, the Bible calls it "abomination"... but the Bible calls out many many many other things as equally abominable, and yet no one is seriously advocating eternal punishment for eating shrimp or wearing poly/cotton blends.


Since the bible specifies "lie with mankind", is it OK if you are standing up?

Is standing up lying from the perspective of the sun?

Why don't evangelicals have sex while standing up? Because if someone peeked in, they might think they were dancing.


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