One of the biggest questions asked of us who have publicly announced that we are non-believers is "What if your wrong?" Here's my theory: The story goes that god forgives those that ask for it right? Or if we are truly sorry then we will be forgiven and won't go to hell. If that's the case and we're wrong, will we be forgiven by christian and catholic logic? It makes no sense to me because I can ask a "believer" the exact same question and they will dance around it or just plainly say "I'm not wrong, GOD is real and your going to hell" (Kinda rude but ok lol)... Just trying to pick a few brains here. 

P.S. I was asked this question 2 days ago and thought i'd get a few opinions. 

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I Understand...

If I remember correctly, Shavante, you are referring to "Pascal's Wager" (Google it!) The great thing about being asked the "what if youre wrong?" question is that you can immediately put the believers faith in question. If god is all knowing and one must have true faith to reap the rewards of heaven than god would surely know when someone is believing "just in case". In my experience anyone asking an atheist that question is in the midst of a crisis of faith (even if they don't know it), and as a non-believer you then have a real shot at shaking their foundation and making them think. Hope that helps!

Thanks, Michael. That a believer even knows Pascal's Wager is a start.

The few who cited it to challenge me knew only two of its four choices: the two that assume a god exists.

I point out the other two choices and hope I shake their foundation:

1) If no god exists and I comply with a religion's rules, I miss out on a lot of fun.

2) If no god exists and I ignore a religion's rules, then if the sheriff doesn't care, I don't.

Read #2 metaphorically, not literally; I'm not a sociopath.

I like to tell believers my favorite lines. In no particular order they are:

1) Religion is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on humankind.

2) The more who look for happiness in another life, the fewer who want me to share this life's happiness.

3) God fucked up. I like to follow up with "Most boys discover wet dreams; few girls discover their equivalent."

Very nice michael :)
Kudos my friend.. very nice response :)

I don't accept "God" as a legitimate concept. It's self-contraditory and makes no sense. Yes it seems to make sense if you think like a child. I see religion from memetics, as a self-perpetuating information entity like a computer virus, using human beings as a host.

Talking to a believer as if "God" makes sense is self defeating, like trying to reason with a drunk while pretending he has no alcohol problem. It's a waste of time.

Well said ruth..

If we're wrong, and there is a god (that cares about us humans, etc., etc.), then given the universe, our planet, and our societies looking exactly as they would if there weren't one, she/he/it would have a lot of explaining to do!

Then again, the fundamentalists would have some explaining to do, themselves!

In Jim Huber's tract "Dead to Rights" (a parody of the Chick Publications tract "Last Rites") the publisher Jack Chick dies and meets his god face to face. It doesn't go quite as Chick imagined...




(read the whole thing)

ok cool

That a good 1

Shavante, it's an interesting and worthwhile question to mull over.  I think most people, whether religious or not, ask this question at some point.  I have.

What if the christian is wrong and there is really a Muslim god?  What if the Muslims are wrong and it's the god of the Jews?  What if the Muslims and Jews and Christians are wrong, and it's the Hindu god?  What if they are all wrong, and Buddhism is right?  Or Zoroastrianism.  Is it majority vote - the most people in a particular religion win?   What kind of god would do that?

Since there is no majority religion worldwide - no one "right"  religion has even half of the world's billions - why is the supposedly loving "god" being so cruel as to set up billions of people for eternal torture?  How does that make sense?  

I think the "what if I am wrong" argument applies to everyone, everywhere.  The only way that argument can be used to support existence of a god, is if that god is a truly malevolent, violent, cruel, dastardly, childish, evil being, who relishes torture of billions of human beings.  What an awful disgusting being that god would be.

I believe so too. If he's up there, what is he doing? If he hears all, sees all and knows all, why when people pray for good, it doesn't come? Not until they make it happen and then give god all the credit.




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