I'm in California where all this Prop 8 stuff is going on. It's got me pretty upset.

Personally, my perspective on being gay is that it's similar to being left-handed, some people are just born that way (and god hates lefties too apparently). It's not like I'm gay, I would know by now if I was born that way, but I don't see any reason to hate people who are or people who want to start families with a same-sex partner, different people have different kinds of families. Science has documented homosexuality in animals. So far the only reason I've heard why people hate gay people is because they think they have to or they'll go to hell. I don't subscribe to a religious belief system, so I don't have any reason to hate gays.

Just wondering if this is the majority opinion among Atheists or if it's just me?

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No I mean I just wanted to know what most atheists thought of the matter, not what the "official atheist stance" is on anything. So it's not just me then.
What people do in the privacy of thier own homes is thier business. Ones sexual proclivity is as much a issue as ones favorite flavor of ice cream in my eyes.
Queerness isn't just about sexual orientation. It's also an emotional orientation.
Since any sort of argument against gay marriage that I have come across is related to religion, most atheists I know (myself included) don't see any reason why not. Who cares if they marry? I'm very supportive of the issue because it is dear to me for personal reasons, but as an atheist, I lack any religious obligation to give a shit.
Natural selection abhors homos? Just attempting levity...
Right, but remember that's because the mores of the whole society have shifted since the '70s, so naturally the only source of persecuting gays would be the religious nuts. Now maybe back in the '50s atheists and others would have no special reason to persecute homosexuals, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were any more enlightened than anyone else. But as I said, there's always been a live-and-let-live attitude among many about people's private lives.

Homosexuality is a special case in that homosexuals were never perceived as a minority analogous to other minorities, as occurs today. There were gay rights organizations prior to 1969 in the USA, and in the 1920s in Germany, I believe. Still, the conception of gays as a minority in a comparable sense to others did not, to my knowledge, exist.

Were one to probe the attitudes of atheists to Jews, blacks, etc., 50 or more years ago (or in some instances, more recently), atheists might not have come out looking like angels. The question of anti-Semitism has hardly disappeared. On the other hand, since explicitly left-wing atheists could function prior to the McCarthy as they have not been able to since, there were certainly a multitude of atheists with more progressive views on racial and ethnic matters than the majority of the population.
Thanks for injecting an historical perspective, Ralph.
This and your previous reply is interesting. It's true that the psychiatric profession thought of homosexuality as a mental disorder, something that needs to be fixed. Like you say these were not necessarily theistic people. But their diagnoses could be following prevailing (theistic) thought. Many types of behaviors have changed status as mental disorders through history. For instance, recently there has a lot of interest in how normal 'grief' has been turned into 'depression' and medicated.
Consensual adult humans are just that, and whether they're gay or straight or bi or poly, it's up to them. I'm PERSONALLY a hetero-leaning bisexual (70/30) without a poly bone in my body, and to be perfectly honest, sodomy kind of creeps me out. But if OTHER people (gay or straight) want to engage in that, it's up to them. If other people want to have open relationships with multiple partners, that's cool too, I just won't personally date them.

The one non-theistic strawman against SSM I've heard is "What will we tell the children?" I don't tell my son anything at all. My neighbor whose dogs we play with is a gay man. My friends who come over and watch my son sometimes are a lesbian couple (who he calls Aunt Annie and Uncle Dawn). I have straight friends too, and one of my close friends is a transsexual. My son just thinks they're people. If I don't make a big deal about orientation, why would he?
Oh Ms. Angie, the modern term for "sodomy" is anal sex.
What's funny is that Sodomy used to mean anything other than penis to vagina sex.
That's correct, Brian. And it still does. Anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex or even an animal is still a commonly accepted definition of the word sodomy.




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