It seems the last few years feminism has made quite the comeback, but I also hear many negative things surrounding it, like claims of discrimination and housewife hating. What is the deal? If it were simply equal pay, rights, and authority; I don't see how it has gathered so much negativity, so why is it attracting so much criticism?

Isn't it time for a SERIOUS conversation about it? What are your thoughts and opinions on the issue?

Views: 894

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I suspect that modern feminism is making a comeback because creationism is making a comeback. What I mean here is that fundamentalist christianity is trying so desperately to invade our schools, government, and politics and this affects our corporate world. Theists think that a woman should be in the kitchen making them a sandwich, and women don't want to stand for it. We've been through it before and now because of Republicons and the Tea Potty, "legitimate rape," and men wanting control of women's bodies, we will all go through it again. Such things affect how you view women right on down to how much money they make. It's enough to say women are tired of all this, but a real wonder that many women support the very organizations that are against them.

Once people decide that we are a "christian nation" and that we are "young earth creationists" carrying these ideas into government and corporate structures, anything can happen. Fighting for their beliefs the fundies claim "intelligent design" as a direct challenge to evolution. These ideas catch on. Recently a JW came to my door with his magazines and on the back page of one there was a picture of a frog they thought had been "designed."

Real women do not like to be subservient to the church or anyone else.

I see, I could understand how the resurgence of fundamentalism would be disturbing to women, considering what the bible has to say about them. It has always been entertaining to me, albeit a sad form of entertainment, how many people willingly support an ideology which would love nothing more than to oppress and silence them.

That said, I have seen a number of otherwise rational people criticize the movement. I really don't think they would do so if was simply a civil movement for equal rights.

I have seen a number of otherwise rational people criticize the movement. I really don't think they would do so if was simply a civil movement for equal rights.

You think people would relinquish something so deeply entrenched as male privilege without a fight?  Male privilege is very personal.  Much more so that white privilege. 

Could you elaborate on male privilege, I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean by that?

You can find lots and lots of research on how discrimination against women happens.  A good article on discrimination against women as leaders.

Men control most of the money and everywhere are overwhelmingly in leadership positions.  If I go into a business, almost always it will be run by a man.  We have never had a female president in the USA, and we have few female lawmakers. 

Some men have the strange idea that despite all this, males are the ones that are discriminated against. 
There's also the fear of rape that women live with, so they don't go many places alone. 

Women tend to be treated with less respect, treated as if we are stupid.  Women are interrupted more in conversations.  Both by men and by women. 
That one gets to me personally a LOT.  I often find myself saying "Please, let me finish saying what I was saying!"  Often I have a hard time even communicating what I need to say, because the other person simply talks over me!  And I get attacked for saying this, for fighting for the right to say what I think.  I may be labelled as "strident" or contentious for saying it.   Statistically, if I were male - this would not be happening nearly as much!  People would let me finish my sentences and tell them what I think. 

The right to be heard is such a fundamental right.  And it's only the beginning, because being heard doesn't mean one will be treated with respect. 

"You can find lots and lots of research on how discrimination against women happens.  A good article on discrimination against women as leaders."

Thank you for your response! I also appreciate the article, I found it intriguing and very on-point. Now, if I understand this right, most people don't think women posses as much of whatever is desired in a leader, as men do?  I find that assumption erroneous, and find it weird that both men and women would hold it.

That said, I am not sure I would call it "male privilege". It doesn't make anything better nor easier for your average male.

"Men control most of the money and everywhere are overwhelmingly in leadership positions.  If I go into a business, almost always it will be run by a man.  We have never had a female president in the USA, and we have few female lawmakers."

10%. The top 10% hold over 90% of the wealth. Most of them are men, and most of them are over 60. That tells me two things:

1. They stated making the bulk of their money in the 70's, when women faced very difficult challenges in the the workplace.

2.  We haven't established that your average male is necessarily more likely to get a better wage than a female coworker. Which is precisely what your argument implies.

I may be voting for a female president in the next election, it has been strongly hinted at that Mrs Clinton may be running for the office. I haven't seen many people against the idea of Hillary running, so a female leader may be a lot closer than you think.

"Some men have the strange idea that despite all this, males are the ones that are discriminated against."

Well, I wouldn't agree with that, at least not without seeing some evidence for it. I also would not represent them not being discriminated against as some sort of "privilege".

"There's also the fear of rape that women live with, so they don't go many places alone."

Rape is a terrible crime, and no man or woman should ever have to experience it. That said, I don't go many places alone, because I don't want to get robbed or killed. While I appreciate women are at least twice as likely to be raped, did you know men are at least twice as likely to be injured or killed?

I am not sure if I should see decreased risk of sexual assault, but increased risk of serious injury or death, as a "privilege". Our risks are different, perhaps, but not "privilege".

"Women tend to be treated with less respect, treated as if we are stupid.  Women are interrupted more in conversations.  Both by men and by women. 


That one gets to me personally a LOT.  I often find myself saying "Please, let me finish saying what I was saying!"  Often I have a hard time even communicating what I need to say, because the other person simply talks over me!  And I get attacked for saying this, for fighting for the right to say what I think.  I may be labelled as "strident" or contentious for saying it.   Statistically, if I were male - this would not be happening nearly as much!  People would let me finish my sentences and tell them what I think. 

The right to be heard is such a fundamental right.  And it's only the beginning, because being heard doesn't mean one will be treated with respect."

Indeed, nothing annoys me more than when someone I am talking to gets interrupted. That said, I also get interrupted all the time, but I don't find it quite as annoying, strange as that may sound.

Travis, criticism comes with resistance to domination. It is part of the dance. Stand up for yourself and someone is always there with a mallet knocking you down. There is an Indian story familiar to our Spokane Indian tribe that states an Indian will always have an empty bucket of fish while a white man's bucket is full. Other Indians pull fish out of the buck of the Indian so he won't get to think too much of himself.  

If you don't want to be criticized, put on a happy face and say "Yes Sir, Yes Mam". 

Michael, you state it powerfully. 

I also support gender equality, which is why I was curious as to the negative reaction modern feminism seems to have earned. If it was simply about equality, I am at a loss to explain that negative reaction. I will take your recommendation and watch the videos, hopefully they can elucidate the issue for me.

Mequa, you make one helluva an argument!.  I have not seen the YouTube videos, but will check them out. I do have a question though. I work in the justice system where women are routinely beaten by their lovers, their children see it, and the kids that witness it grow up to do the same damn thing. 

My approach has always been, F^&k the adults (men and women both), and do what you can to protect the children. Mom and Dad, at 25, 30, or 40 years of age, are not about to change. Maybe, just maybe (and the odds are a long shot) you can rescue one kid.

Your thoughts? 

My approach has always been, F^&k the adults (men and women both)

If you truly deprive women who are routinely beaten by their lovers of legal protection, then you're part of the problem. 

I should have elaborated. Most cases where women with children are abused are not those where the women seek the protection of the justice system. For those that do seek legal protection, they deserve all the protection the justice system can afford.

Unfortunately, the majority of abused women, once their abuser is arrested, will 1) claim nothing ever happened, and that it was all an accident, 2) claim they were the aggressor and the poor, poor man was just defending himself when he broke her jaw, 3) commit perjury to protect the abuser, and/or 4) refuse to cooperate with law enforcement so that the abuser can continue perpetrating his abuse on her, or another victim.  All the while, exposing her children to one incident of abuse, after another, after another....... In those situations, I have no sympathy for either adult, and will do what I can to protect the children

RSS

About

line

Update Your Membership :

Membership

line

Nexus on Social Media:

© 2018   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: The Nexus Group.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service