I was reading an article in the "Atheist Revolution" blog and I came across this snippet:

When I encounter a parent telling her children about Santa Claus, I may find it unfortunate that someone would lie to one's own child merely for entertainment purposes. The potential for harm here seems trivially small. I cannot say the same for the Muslim parent instructing his son in the virtues of martyrdom or the Christian who tells her daughter that her Jewish friends will go to hell because they have not been "saved."

Could we not add something like the following to the last sentence:

...or the jew who tells his kids that he's "chosen" and has a covenant with god that entitles him and his "people" to the land of Israel, and then uses that as justification for a bloody occupation of Palestine.

The one-year anniversary of Operation Cast Lead is approaching (Dec. 27th) and I think we should take a look at where we've come since then. The Goldstone Report: buried. Settlements: expanding. Palestinian house demolitions: continuing.

As atheists, we should be appalled whenever religion is used to justify actions that result in suffering or death. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a child dies because a Christian Scientist eschewed Western medicine in favor of prayer. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a Muslim nutjob finds motivation in his religion to grab some firearms and gun down some people. Why are we silent when an ethnic group uses a story about chosen people and covenants in The Big Book of Jewish Fairy Tales (aka, the Old Testament) to justify what is looking more and more like a slow, methodical ethnic cleansing campaign? Why do the Jews need to have Jerusalem all to themselves? Why is it so important to them to have a Jewish majority that they'll turn Gaza into a prison camp and The West Bank into Swiss cheese where the Palestinians are forced to live on smaller and smaller plots of land and endure more and more restrictions on their movement? If this were being done to a Jewish population they'd be screaming about a second holocaust.

The bottom line is that all three major religions are guilty of many modern-day atrocities and have a great deal of blood on their metaphorical hands. Why do we only bewail the actions of two of those three major religions?

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Bull's eye.

Bull's eye as in talking trash on the internet makes you feel better? Glad to have helped.

Bull's eye.


The diatribe I resisted was an explanation of the history leading up to the holocaust. Everything else is just argument.

What are you talking about "my religion"? I am an atheist and an anti-theist. Israel is fascist state, ha. Compared to the theocracies that surround it and governments that truly are fascist you are again being silly. I also despise racism. Nor have I excused all of the abuses of Israeli government merely say they pale in comparison with other governments especially in view of exigent circumstances. And there is clearly a double standard. Same Jew haters dont give a shit about genocide and human rights violation that are so prevelant elsewhere.

At least there is some merit in your who was here first argument. But it is indisputable that Jews had a state in same locus. Europeans came to us to exploit. Humans everywhere and in every country have disputes over territory and as I say might makes right. So unless you are making a condemnation of all mankind your argument fails.

You painting me as black and white-all arabs bad and jews good is patently false. reread you will see.

One of us has been reduced to propaganda. What are you even talking about everyone on atheist nexus disagrees with my stance? Not so. And you are more a racist than a religous bigot from what I can ascertain.

As for the double standard it is so very obvious. I dont know from your analogy with rel. conservatives. If you are a teacher and you punish only one child for stealing an apple while you excuse the rest of the students who have stolen apple pies then it is plain to see you got it out for the apple taker.

Aint saying Jews or state of Israel is perfect. Far from it. I am saying humans everywhere do awful shit. You just got your eyes on a small but influential minority who have endured unspeakable persecution and are constantly threatened.

*sigh* I should've figured this would end up exactly the same as any conversation with every other conservative Jew -- yes, that would be you -- that responded to any criticism with accusations of anti-semitism. The question is should I go back and quote all those instances where you and others made arguably subconscious attacks against other groups of people while simultaneously excusing your own religion? I've come to the conclusion that I just couldn't give a shit. Have fun believing in your "Democracy"... And your persecution complex...

I don't know if you realized that Jews have repopulated since the 1940's. I don't know if you realize that Jews weren't the only people that Nazi's killed. But yes, you're going to repeat that Zionist mantra that every other race has done worse things than yours, and that excuses any action any Israeli could ever do. And then you're going to call me racist, ironically. Ironically... your responses so ironic, but you just don't see it. Fortunately, I'm not your psychiatrist.

Edit: Last thing. I've never excused the American government, but here's what you're saying: Americans are worse than us. They have no right to criticize us. Therefore, we're absolved from the responsibilities of our crime. Or are you saying: All the other kids are stealing apples, therefore I will steal them too. If you want to criticize them, criticize all the other kids before criticizing us; otherwise, you're just a hypocrite, and we're not really wrong? What you're really saying is b-b-but... they did it too!


OJ Simpson got away with murder. Therefore, it's not wrong for me to do it too...

Classic religionist logic. Just classic...

By the way, have you looked into American history (and Canadian history, too, for that matter) to see how the Chinese have been treated?  If you think the Palestinians have it bad, look at what the Chinese immigrants and Chinese Americans have gone through.  See how many of them were literally worked to death just to build railroads, for example.

Another pathetic attempt to change the topic. What's your point? So you're saying Israel isn't so bad in comparison?

Wrong again JC. I am half breed. Would not even be counted as Jew by religious Jews. Not primarily conservative either, am left leaning on most but not all issues.

Where did you see me excuse judaism? I despise em all, although others are worse. And just like in US where christian loons threaten political system orthodox Jews do same in Israel. You just stawdoggin all over making assumptions about me based on your preconceived notions. Does not matter what I write. Your brain is impervious to it.

Have fun hanging onto your hatred. Peace.

And have fun making your own assumptions, then telling me I'm making them, defending Judaism, then telling us you despise all religions. Correction: You didn't defend Judaism, you defended Judaism-based manifest destiny, which is markedly worse as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't care less what your race is or what your mother's race is, I will judge people for their views. It's like an atheist trying to tell me how much more peaceful and inherently better Islam is compared to "other religions" right after he finished his afternoon prayer...

Funny, but Theodore Herzl, the founder of Modern Zionism was an agnostic or atheist depending on your definition.  Most of the early leaders of Israel back in the late 40's were also atheist.  Not that I expect you to get your head around this.

Glen, JC is blinded, deaf and dumb.  No point trying to debate him.  I've run across many like him who spends lots of internet time on the Israel-Palestinian conflict, letting everyone know how bad the Jews are (though he will be quick to call the Jews he has issues with Israelis).  You will not find him posting about Darfur, Syria, or any other conflict on this planet, except maybe in passing.  I guess Jews or I mean Israelis are expected to be held to higher standards than the rest of the planet.

I'm all for a two state solution, too bad the Palestinians have shown no inclination towards accepting a Jewish majority state as one of them.  This puts Israel in a very tough situation and has since day one.

One fact that those who believe that Israel shouldn't exist in the first place tend to forget, ignore or not even know about is that Pakistan was awarded a state as a Muslim state a year before Israel was to be Partitioned.  You'll find that the JCs of the world have no problem with that, nor is there any problem with the fact that millions of people in Brazil today are of Arab descent.  See, Arabs and Muslims are allowed to go anywhere, change the direction of countries or at least small pockets and towns like Dearborn, but if Jews from Europe go to a non sovereign area in the middle east and become a majority, there is hell to pay.

Ah, strength in numbers. Blinded, deaf, and dumb, eh? I'll take that as a compliment coming from you.

The Jewish Jew says, "You will not find him posting about Darfur, Syria, or any other conflict on this planet, except maybe in passing.  I guess Jews or I mean Israelis are expected to be held to higher standards than the rest of the planet."

Typical argument from racist Jews saying it's okay, since other people are doing it too...



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