I was reading an article in the "Atheist Revolution" blog and I came across this snippet:

When I encounter a parent telling her children about Santa Claus, I may find it unfortunate that someone would lie to one's own child merely for entertainment purposes. The potential for harm here seems trivially small. I cannot say the same for the Muslim parent instructing his son in the virtues of martyrdom or the Christian who tells her daughter that her Jewish friends will go to hell because they have not been "saved."

Could we not add something like the following to the last sentence:

...or the jew who tells his kids that he's "chosen" and has a covenant with god that entitles him and his "people" to the land of Israel, and then uses that as justification for a bloody occupation of Palestine.

The one-year anniversary of Operation Cast Lead is approaching (Dec. 27th) and I think we should take a look at where we've come since then. The Goldstone Report: buried. Settlements: expanding. Palestinian house demolitions: continuing.

As atheists, we should be appalled whenever religion is used to justify actions that result in suffering or death. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a child dies because a Christian Scientist eschewed Western medicine in favor of prayer. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a Muslim nutjob finds motivation in his religion to grab some firearms and gun down some people. Why are we silent when an ethnic group uses a story about chosen people and covenants in The Big Book of Jewish Fairy Tales (aka, the Old Testament) to justify what is looking more and more like a slow, methodical ethnic cleansing campaign? Why do the Jews need to have Jerusalem all to themselves? Why is it so important to them to have a Jewish majority that they'll turn Gaza into a prison camp and The West Bank into Swiss cheese where the Palestinians are forced to live on smaller and smaller plots of land and endure more and more restrictions on their movement? If this were being done to a Jewish population they'd be screaming about a second holocaust.

The bottom line is that all three major religions are guilty of many modern-day atrocities and have a great deal of blood on their metaphorical hands. Why do we only bewail the actions of two of those three major religions?

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Self-proclaimed anti-semite? Where did I say it?

By decades of scientific background, you mean New Earth, right? Because if the Earth was made in 6 days, decades must be only 5 minutes!

Are you really an atheist?  You said that much too much like a new-earther.

I had to think real hard about how you could claim to have decades of scientific background when you lack even a lick of critical thinking skills. You either mean religious "science", or pop science... Which is it?

Medical science.



Assuming arguendo that the preceding posts stand for the proposition you assert (and they do not), the sample is grossly insufficient to be the basis of a generalization.

The notion you espouse of persecution being a flimsy basis for Jewish "crimes" is laughable. Jew hating is so pervasive that there is little doubt that a different outcome to ww11 and jews would be all but eliminated. Wouldn't that be fun? I will resist a diatribe cuz it would likely make no impression on your religious mind which is to say you cannot be confused with facts in this context.

By the way, slavery and the persecution of blacks continues to play a major role in the lives of blacks today. Institutional racism continues strongly in US. Black children are not treated the same as white and asian children in schools and elsewhere.

Equating treatment of native americans with palestinians is silly. The Jews were there first. They had a presence all those centuries later. They were elated with two state solution in 1947. Arabs wanted it all and attacked next day after UN spoke. Jews came back to Israel because their survival was a matter of self-reliance since they were without much in the way of allies.

Europeans who came to america were looking for resources and considered the natives to be nonchristian subhumans. They carried out a policy of annihilation at worst, marginilization at best. An absolutely enormous expanse of land for natives who had been here for ten thousand years and a two state solution was unthinkable. The few survivors were decultured and forced onto awful land- reservations. Interestingly the puritans who came to america to escape persecution in england got here and did there own persecution. Rape of indian women common and rarely punished. NOT THE SAME.

Israel has insane religious Jews, to be sure. Also higher percentage of atheists. But it is a democracy and has many arabic citizens-many who hate Palestinians. Also true that Palestinians have been slaughtered by some of their arabic neighbors. Do you cry dodger blue for those victims? And Israel is such a tiny state and the threat of attack is omnipresent so now of course they are not willing to cede land any more than us will give texas and new mexico back to Mexico. But of course the Israeli security issue is of paramout concern to israelis.

Your go back to China analogy is specious. Once having established a country aint nobody giving up anything particularly in the case of Israel where Arabs motivated by religous hatred want their semite monkey cousins driven into the sea.

JC your shit is so tendentious that nothing will persuade you. Jews are just people. Might makes right. You want to examine the history of the dutch, germans, japanese, belgians, english. . . . and compare it to the history of the jews. Jews come out smelling like lilacs. But they are just people who have a higher IQ but continue to have a full array of stupid religious fucks.

Glen Rosenberg,

First you fail at resisting a diatribe. I noticed the first predictable thing you will jump on is how I am Jew-hating. Your racial bias has gotten you to the point where every criticism lodged against your precious fascist state is now seen as an attack against your entire religion, ethnicity, and God-given Mandate conflated into the same ball of confusion. No, my mind is quite clear, thank you. But feel free to tell us where you really stand on religion.

As for the rest of your diatribe, I will not argue with you on who came first, which is such a ridiculous defense if you think some ethnic ancestry in name is enough to guarantee you a spot of land which someone else was currently residing. For a professed atheist, you sure like to make reaches into the Bible to draw your "facts".

Neither will I get into second-class Arab citizens living in that apartheid we call Jerusalem, where all the Jewish kids throw rocks at them. You could find these videos on YouTube among other places, if you weren't so quickly to deride facts as "anti-semitism". Nor will I get into the rape and murder of the "most moral army in the world" that is consistently denied independent review by the Jewish government.

No. Anyone who knows a bit of history would easily see Jews aren't all rosy, enlightened people you paint them as, and Arabs aren't all religious bigots that want to drive Jews into the sea. The fact that I do not play by your bigoted game of black and white does not make me a bigot, and certainly does not make me religious. Your straw man is what's specious. If everyone that disagrees with your Jewish propaganda is a religious bigot, what does that make everyone at AtheistNexus?

Oh, and by the way: "There is such a DOUBLE STANDARD where jews are concerned. Those same bleeding hearts who pit the poor palestinians often could care less about genocide and human rights violations anywhere else on the globe."

This is an excuse you typically find from those religious conservatives you hate so much. It goes something like this: There is a DOUBLE STANDARD. If X [e.g. other people] could do A [criticized act] then we can too. The criticisms aren't valid unless they apply to everyone at the same time. In other words, on George Zimmerman, because some black kid in Chicago killed a white guy and no one cares, therefore there is a double standard, and therefore, George Zimmerman is not wrong.

"And Israel is such a tiny state and the threat of attack is omnipresent so now of course they are not willing to cede land any more than us will give texas and new mexico back to Mexico."

Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the region and most powerful navies in the world. Calling Israel a tiny state under threat of omnipresent attacks is mischaracterization at best. You hear stories every week of missiles being launched into southern Israel and hitting nothing. The standard Israeli response? An eye for 10 eyes. Launch a targeted missile back and killing dozens. There's no other way for you to cut it. As for your analogy of us giving Mexico back Texas, that's telling that you already consider Palestinian land yours. The true contrast should be that we are not building houses into Baja California and Tijuana, and launching military incursions to anyone who steps within a radius of our settlements, even if they happened to live there.

Nice try, buddy.

You could actually choose to go to a library, read books -- especially those written around the time of Israel's modern recognition of statehood and following through since then -- various books from various perspectives -- and begin to know something about the subject, but I don't expect you will.  It's too easy to accept sound bites that suit your predisposition.

And in this respect, you illustrate the difference between someone who comes to atheism through logic and knowledge versus someone who, lacking the knowledge and therefore limited in logic (to say the least), comes to atheism to rebel against religion.

Rage on.  Perhaps, in your rebellion, you will someday mature enough to add knowledge to better direct your rage.  For now, there is no sense trying to reason with you.  You present an exceedingly unreasonable picture.

Nice. I refute the double standard argument and you ramble on about something irrelevant like "read a book" or "in your rebellion"... against whom, may I ask? God? Or the Holy Leaders of Israel?

Human beings around you, sometime during your life including, perhaps, now, who subtly or not so subtly put you down and push you away.  Since I don't know the people around you, all I can do is recognize that your behavior is reactive, displaced, and includes projecting onto others what you can't stand to see in yourself.

Exactly, since you don't know anything about me, and you are unwilling to address the actual post, you pose like some wannabe psychologist in a pathetic attempt to insult me. If you haven't realized, that doesn't work.

Glen Rosenberg tried it yesterday, I don't know why you think you could hurl the same lame juvenile insults and it would magically work.

Hits that close to home, does it?  I thought so.

Yes, sure, whatever makes you feel better...




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