I was reading an article in the "Atheist Revolution" blog and I came across this snippet:

When I encounter a parent telling her children about Santa Claus, I may find it unfortunate that someone would lie to one's own child merely for entertainment purposes. The potential for harm here seems trivially small. I cannot say the same for the Muslim parent instructing his son in the virtues of martyrdom or the Christian who tells her daughter that her Jewish friends will go to hell because they have not been "saved."

Could we not add something like the following to the last sentence:

...or the jew who tells his kids that he's "chosen" and has a covenant with god that entitles him and his "people" to the land of Israel, and then uses that as justification for a bloody occupation of Palestine.

The one-year anniversary of Operation Cast Lead is approaching (Dec. 27th) and I think we should take a look at where we've come since then. The Goldstone Report: buried. Settlements: expanding. Palestinian house demolitions: continuing.

As atheists, we should be appalled whenever religion is used to justify actions that result in suffering or death. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a child dies because a Christian Scientist eschewed Western medicine in favor of prayer. We do not seem to hesitate to speak out when a Muslim nutjob finds motivation in his religion to grab some firearms and gun down some people. Why are we silent when an ethnic group uses a story about chosen people and covenants in The Big Book of Jewish Fairy Tales (aka, the Old Testament) to justify what is looking more and more like a slow, methodical ethnic cleansing campaign? Why do the Jews need to have Jerusalem all to themselves? Why is it so important to them to have a Jewish majority that they'll turn Gaza into a prison camp and The West Bank into Swiss cheese where the Palestinians are forced to live on smaller and smaller plots of land and endure more and more restrictions on their movement? If this were being done to a Jewish population they'd be screaming about a second holocaust.

The bottom line is that all three major religions are guilty of many modern-day atrocities and have a great deal of blood on their metaphorical hands. Why do we only bewail the actions of two of those three major religions?

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Can you imagine an Arab monarch allowing all his citizens a good education and income?

Yes, as a matter of fact I can. It's called the United Arab Emirates...

How can he maintain control if they decide to be free of his reign?  And why bother to reign if not to be the wealthiest by far?

What country are you talking about exactly? Or are you saying all Arab governments are inherently inferior? And what does that mean exactly, that you could go build illegal settlements in their land and make military raids without account for collateral damage?

The UAE is an interesting case.  It is so tiny, its native population so small, and its wealth so extremely large, they just imported a lower class and raised their own up too high for a real middle class in between.  Fascinating, really.

i wasn't but thank you for the reply

i didnt say judaism is no longer a religion. i said its not viewed as JUST a religion and it doesn't act like other religious groups.

well nowadays, with all of the "political correctness," any group of people would automatically jump down your throat even if what your saying is true. 

have you ever been to israel? i get what your saying, but if you went to israel you would see that there are arabs everywhere and they seem pretty happy. they aren't as repressed as the media makes them out to be. honestly, if they weren't trying to kill sevillians and wipe israel off the map israel would be less cautious and make them full citizens. 

israelis dont generally discriminate against arabs. unless, of course, they've had bad experiences like my friend whose mother died when an arab suicide bomber walked into a pizza store and killed a whole bunch of people.

There is a key misconception which you include and I'd like to counter.  It is the perception that Israel, before becoming a modern state in May of 1948, was completely bereft of Jews, had no Jews living in it for centuries, maybe even since shortly after Jesus, and that it was filled with Palestinians who were pushed out of the way to make room for the Jews.  At least one person has posted on this forum that there never were any Jews living on that land, ever, and that they actually came from somewhere else, that the whole of the Torah is made up, so Jews, then are a made up entity, too.

I took a college course on the History of Zionism which covered the period from the turn of the century over 112 years ago until a couple decades into the current State of Israel.  The textbook is not at hand, but it had many legitimate references.  This was at a state university, not a religious institution, and the course was a history course, not a religious course.  There was no religious curriculum, there, outside of the usual "Comparative Religions" class, which I also took.

Antisemitism didn't suddenly sprout under Hitler, either.  My eyes were opened wider when, a couple years ago, I saw the documentary "Constantine's Sword."  Church policy officially began to indoctrinate antisemitism into Christians during the era of Constantine.  Jews, of course, didn't kill Jesus.  The Romans did, and for political reasons.

Back to Israel, hundreds if not thousands died well before 1948 clearing swamps infested with malaria-carrying mosquitos to make productive the only land they could afford to purchase, that and land which had turned to useless desert.  They found trees were key to reclaiming both.  They dry out the swamps and hold moisture in the desert.  The Jews whose families had been able to stay in Israel, particularly Jerusalem, since before Jesus time stayed.  Others came from Europe, bringing donations to buy bits of land to resettle.  So, before the Holocaust, there was a sizable Jewish population developing in reaction to a growth of European antisemitism.  (The Inquisition wasn't forgotten, after all.)

As Jews moved in and made the land productive, developing a growing economy, Arabs moved in to find work -- just like today, in America, when people move to the cities to find work, but on a smaller scale.  

So, there was no magic to this, no sudden shift in population, and as May of 1948 came close, the British shut down and blocked all the Jewish immigration they could, allowing more Arabs to move in to shift the balance.

Read the history.  It's there.  Current propaganda hides it.  You can find it, though, easily, if you look.

Actually, I never even said this. You just had this straw man prepared for anyone arguing in detriment of the Holy Land so that you could be racist but call other people racists for your racism.

I think you mean "holey" land, what with all the rockets flying in from the Gaza strip.  When Israel gave the Gaza strip to the Arabs (you know, the ones you call Palestinians), the new owners destroyed all the buildings and infrastructure they could, first thing on arrival.  Now, just how smart is that?  They should have used them and built them up further, rather than wasting such resources.

Blah blah blah I hate Arabs... sooooo.... what's new, Doc? Bomb any new hospitals lately?

You don't realize how much you embarrass yourself, do you?

Embarrassment is subjective.

Embarrassment is social humiliation.  You don't even realize how you humiliate yourself with irrational comments and misuse of vocabulary, coupled with misdirected anger.  Well, you go on without me.  You need to get the last word in, no matter what that word is.  Try "existential."  You might as well.

1. pertaining to existence.

are you addressing me?



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