I've never watched a superbowl.  I am not a fan of professional sports -- period.  I think they are a waste of time.  I also think they amount to nothing more than sublimated violence (and in the case of ice hockey, it's not all that sublimated).  I also think they are hugely counterproductive.  It's not for nothing that the Roman emperors controlled the masses with pan et circenses.  It was by giving the Roman citizens bread and public spectacles (in Nero's time, the feeding of Christians to lions) that their leaders controlled them.

In modern times, as Eldridge Cleaver put it, the people will never revolt as long as there are supermarkets.  I agree, though I would make it: the people will never revolt as long as they have supermarkets and the Super Bowl.  (Have you noticed how so many people in the stores are stocking up on chips, dips, and beer?  That's so that they can have diabetic or coronary reactions and, when inebriated, curse and beat their wives.)

This year will be super difficult, as I am a fan of The Who, for one thing, and for another wanted to see how far the Dobson Family will go in making abortion look like a capital offense for the abortionist and a stoning crime for the poor pregnant woman.  (After all, is there really any real difference between an American theocrat and a Muslim Mullah?)  That CBS accepted the ad featuring a sob story from a player speaks poorly of them.  Perhaps it should subject the network to what is left of the equal opportunity to respond laws.  Say, Planned Parenthood at no cost.  As I keep suggesting, we need to amend the IRS rule prohibiting support of a candidate by a religious group.  They should lose their non-profit status by merely lobbying for passage of all legislation based entirely on dogma.

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Having kids that you can't take care of, and ruining their lives, is much more irresponsible.
That's why we have what's called "c o n t r a c e p t i v e s".

No, it's more irresponsible in the first instance, because the imperative is upon the preceding act. Take precautions/don't engage in the act, it is, just that simple.

Abortion as contraception, and that is its purpose in the overwhelming majority of occurrences, just means an irresponsible reprobate.
Contraceptives don't always work, whether people are responsible or not. Being that not all sex is consensual, women don't always take contraceptives when they are not previously sexually active. Men don't use most contraceptives and they don't really know much about them.

It doesn't change the fact that being forced to have a baby as "punishment" for the horribly irresponsible act of taking the pill an hour too late is ruining someone else's life. Anyway, this idea that sex is something that should be punished sounds like a carryover from religion.

Define what you think of as "using abortion as birth control". It's an emotionally charged buzzword but it has little meaning. People really think there are so many women who repeatedly have unprotected sex and then run to the clinic? I have never met one of these mythical creatures. That would be a stupid, painful, and expensive way to not have kids--and if someone is that irresponsible, imagine what kind of parents they will be. I think this "women who use abortion as birth control" is as mythical as the supposed healthy women who have late term abortions b/c they procrastinate or change their mind.

My wife has three biological children. They are all the result of the failing of different birth control methods. Condom failed on the first. Birth control pills happened on the second. In the case of the third a condom and a tubal failed.

Contraceptives aren't failproof.

Can we add "RARE???"
Just a note - this was a discussion of the Super Bowl. If ever there was a contraceptive - it is the Super Bowl.
Obviously you've never heard of "Half-Time ACTIVITIES!!! [grin!]

I thought that was Dungeons & Dragons.

I can never see why this arbitary line of 'viability" is used. Once the embryo has implanted into the placenta every single one of them is as viable as the next. Sure many ( and without going to check the facts, i think most) do not go on to continue to develop, but any act that ends that continued developement is in effect ending a life.

I've made this point before elsewhere on this forum and been shouted down so I want to make one thing clear. I do not support taking the right of a woman to choose an abortion.

My viewpoint is that a rational and non-emotional view on it is that there is no moral argument to support the act of abortion. It is ending artificially a life. If we could stop the argument degenerating into a religious one I think that more would come to this veiw as well.

The only exception i would make is when continuing the pregancy poses a risk to the life of the mother.

Every option is better than abortion in my book. And as shitty a position it would be in I even extend that to pregnancy as result of rape. Its the fault of the rapist, not the child... but they are the one who pays with their life.

Again i say. I am never going to have to make that decision myself and therefore I would never condem a woman who has made this choice themselves, or seek to stop her from being able to make that choice. I just hope that through education we woudl get tot he stage when no-one would make that decision.

Sorry for hijacking the discussion further but I really think its one of the more important discusison anyone can have.


I hardly think it's an arbitrary choice. Making 18 the legal age for being an adult, but 21 to drink, those are arbitrary. They're not based on anything that actually says this person is less likely to be stupid or anything.

The cutoff line is around the point that the fetus is developed enough to survive on its own, but also it's around the same point that all the parts are functioning correctly, including the nerves connecting to the brain. It is at this point that pain can actually be felt.

A rare few are stupid wimps who can abide neither self-control nor self-responsibility. These are those of which you have spoken.

The rest--an overwhelming majority--are normal people, sympathetic to the effects that their actions have or would have on others--including, most importantly to the issue of abortion rights, the effects on the unborn. Ignoring the majority with their obscene amount of humanity--as well as the humanity of these people--seems simply to be at odds with reality.


Pregnancy Intentions and Method Use

Unintended pregnancy,...

Issues of abortion regarding incest, rape, or maternal risk average less than 5% for the entire global population.

As stated, it is to escape responsibility, in any respect, that abortion is propagandized and leveraged as "choice".

And again, from a different source, for just the U.S.:

•On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).





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