This is something I was never able to get a straight answer to. When tragedy strikes you often hear the religious say things like "it's in god's hands", "god has his reasons", or "god has a plan". O RLY? Then what's the point of praying and asking for peace/strength/hope/a cure, etc. if god has already decided if he's going to screw you over? When you probe further you inevitably end up with some totally contradictory explanation of "Free Will". I'm sorry but NO. You can't have it both ways; it simply does not make sense. Sounds to me like the sick game of some omnipotent prick who gets off on hearing his victims plead.

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Alex, good post. I'm nicking some of this for my next online debate with a theist (if you don't mind)!
Good post indeed!
You have managed to articulate logic that I frequently find difficult to put into word. I just hope I can remember this argument when next confronted by a strong Abrahamic theist.
this may be a little off tangent but I noticed that on the right side says Christian Prayer Center, which is an excellent troll opportunity. :-)

this is the link but click the google add first as they pay for it.
Bloody brilliant Alex...xtns are satanists!! I love it!
I think I have the answer, god is supposed to be omnipitant, so he already knows what people want from him, which is why he never answers the phone when people pray to him, so he has already made his mind up what he is going to do and he already knows his reponse to their wants, so he ignores them.Hence nobody ever gets an answer when they phone him and he never calls back.
People have free will and he utterly ignores it, brilliant.
Supposedly, if you call on the elders in heaven, they will hear your prayer and go to god on your behalf and you just may get your prayer answered, or some sort of intervention. Ain't that nice. But, I agree with Dawn just cut that logic usage out!! :) Isn't logic great! Makes perfect sense and I feel like Mr. Spock when I use it...when is all too often!!
I think that more reasonable religious folks would say that they pray to god for him to help them accept the challenges that he has provided them, rather than to change what is.
So where's my million $$$$,God?
Getting a straight answer from a True Believer is like squeezing blood from a stone.

when you ask them a question like that, they know it will force them to think about implications of their religion that will be ultimately uncomfortable.

I am currently in a discussion with a Christian who doesn't understand why I don't worship her favorite god. I'm asking her if it was God who made the rule that unbelievers go to hell (she professes a belief in this.).

She has dodged the question for three emails now. Deliberately. I think that she is closing her mind to it because she's afraid of thinking about it.
So what happens when you force a fundie to think about the logical inconsistancies of their religion and think for themselves ? I mean if they are deeply brainwashed and havent had a thought of their own for years I assume it can trigger complete mental collapse. Its all very well laughing at their mad ideas but a lot of them are just decent people who have been caught up in the madness though no fault of thier own.




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