Jewish Settlers in the West Bank are still attacking and persecuting Palestinians.
Personally I think Israel should not be supported by the West and be forced to hand the occupied territories back to the Palestinians.
Because a stupid set of fake books and Zionist propagandists conning the British into giving them land is no real solid basis for existence of a territory.
But Zionism is still gaining strength and Jews are more determined to take over the land they claim their dumb, outdated God / Yahweh, gave to them.
When factually there never was any actual Israel in the past nor any valid claim for the territory, since Jews were an offshoot of Canaanite Arabs originally.
Jews to Canaanite religion is the same relationship as Mormons to Christianity.
Offshoots created by charlatans.
The Jewish settlers are still trying to steal land from the Palestinians today.
Al Nakba ( the Zionist persecution of Palestinians) lives on.
Dyslexic Dog, I agree, "Judaism and its scriptures are B.S." Challenging Judaism, Christianity, and religion is an important factor in the nonsense they perpetuate. Yes, they eventually will have to look realistically at their attitudes, beliefs, customs, traditions, and values; they won't even look if we remain silent. Speaking out about superstition is not discriminating against anyone, it is discerning. To one who holds superstitious values, ask:
Do you really believe ...?
How do you know that actually happened?
How do you know that is true?
Are the people who told you worthy of being trusted?
What if land were promised to two different people, who has the right to the land?
Who has the right to give land?
Trouble is nobody knows anything with certainty except through evidence.
Archaeological evidence shows that the Judaic scriptures of the Torah / Pentateuch or Genesis to Deuteronomy, which has their God ( YHWH ) granting them Israel, were fraudulently written in the 5th Century BCE after the exodus from Babylonia, not Egypt.
According to the findings of Israel Finkelstien and Neil Asher Silberman.
In their writing and documentary entitled "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts".
Showing that the claim was written when they wanted the territory they once inhabited back, but they were conquered so it was no longer theirs it was the Egyptians at the time, then the Romans, so they wrote that their God declared their ownership to assert a claim from false authority, thus a fraudulent claim.
I would put their findings of Finkelstein, Silberman and their archaeology comrades as more authoritative than what is written in the scriptures any day.
Nothing good going on over there for sure, and I'm not a fan of Nuttiyahu. I recently told my longtime theist friend how this all came about and how bible believing westerners helped Israel become a nation and that there is no land left for Palestinians. It is all different in the minds of the Israeli's than it is in the minds of the bible believers. There can never be peace in the Middle East.
Then my believing friend gave me his account of it all. Abraham decided to have a child with his handmaiden because Sarah was barren and could not have children. This is where Palestinians and Muslims came from. It was all against god's plan but there was nothing god could do about it.
If only more church goers today were this open about god and his activities. Like Hitch said, religion spoils everything.
True, religion stupifies everything. :D
Wherever religion pops up, people become more stupid than before.
Though belief Abraham even existed is wrong, since Abraham had 10 pack camels over 800 years before camels were domesticated and used to carry packs.
Essentially all the myths in Genesis were written in the 5th century BCE, when camels were the most common pack animal, thus the writers appear to believe that humans always used camels to carry packs.
Such is the use of archaeology and anthropology to destroy scriptural myths.
I don't deny the existence of God / YHWH / Yahweh, like most atheists do.
I tell them I believe Yahweh exists, but only as a storybook character like Ulysses or Thor.
It is up to Theists to prove their God exists outside the storybooks. :D
If they cannot prove such, their God shall always remain nothing more than a storybook character.
My words were nothing but satire. Plinius you are a racist, plain and simple. That none of you upbraided her is hard to believe (or upbraided me for that matter me if you did not realize it was satire.)
The conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians is complex and to see it as black and white or utterly one-sided reflects the 'thinking' of an ideologue. Unfortunately the left has taken up the historical demonization of Jews. Concomitantly and quite contrary to their purported values it has elevated the legitimacy of a depraved cult/dictatorship in Islam. At the same time well-meaning leftists have often bought the left's propaganda about Jews and Israelis/Palestinians hook line and sinker.
Zionism has a bad rep. But to properly appreciate it we must view it in its historical context both in terms of the vision of its founders and in context of European/American conquest of land.
Lets begin with the latter. It is common knowledge that history is in large measure might makes right. Ultimately the pretext for taking land, for raping the women, for displacing or enslaving indigenous peoples is irrelevant. In the USA where every stinking treaty with native peoples was broken it was always a matter of the interests of Americans that took precedence. So it is that the discovery of precious minerals was always the impetus to move a reservation that had theretofore been assured as a permanent home. Thus it is under the administration of president Polk in the Mexican war that the greed to acquire greater territory (and the failure of the Mexicans to permit slavery) resulted in a lie about manifest destiny which is essentially god sanctions us as superior and you are weak so fuck you...but again it was simply the perceived interests of the USA that took precedence. Morality be damned! Poor native peoples minding their own business be damned.
If you examine the history of the Americas and of Europe you observe how morality has zero contribution to the motivation and actual deeds of stealing land and exploiting native peoples. Waves and waves of peoples conquered other peoples and stole their land in Europe. Same in the Americas. Additionally we see how Europeans and Americans began a thriving slave trade and went into native lands to steal resources and enslave/exploit native peoples. The atrocities and the notions of racial superiority permeate the history and literature of contemporary times. The English, where the sun never set on their empire, the Belgians in the Congo, the Spanish in South and Central America...it is way too much to cover in a post...it takes years to learn about even a tiny percentage of the bare aggression, atrocities and stealing land, resources and exploiting native peoples.
Israel became a state in 1948. But zionism originates in the 19th century. The biggest name among zionists is Theodor Herzl (an atheist). Herzl and other zionists recognized the trajectory of history. Jews were discriminated against and persecuted in the most base way throughout Europe (not just what became Germany although antisemitism there was particularly virulent.) The zionists knew that ultimately Jews had to find a homeland or they would be forever in jeopardy. How right history proved the zionists to be. It was simply logical to go back to the epicenter of the diaspora where Jews had begun and a residue had never left.
Of course, after the holocaust Jews high-tailed it to Palestine (which was never a nation and had been occupied by Turks and then English) During the holocaust most countries' were quite sympathetic and cooperative in turning over their Jewish citizens to the Nazis. Other than Denmark and Albania which had tiny population of Jews the rest of Europe was all for the final solution or at least not willing to oppose it. America and Canada turned back Jewish escapees of the holocaust. So it is clear Jews needed a homeland desperately. The zionists knew it way way back... The religious crap as aforementioned is simply irrelevant. It is where Jews were going to go and the visionary zionists of the 19th century foresaw the urgency and the location. They were mostly atheists and not like the religious zealots in the occupied territories.
Jewish victims went in great numbers to Palestine which was at the time a British mandate. Underground Jewish organizations committed a bit of terrorism and more importantly the English empire post WW2 was too far stretched to retain India, Palestine and some of its other territories. In 1947 as unrest increased the UN proposed a plan to partition and create an Arab and a Jewish state. Jews accepted it. Arabs rejected it. They wanted it all. Therefore the Arabs attacked Jews after they declared statehood. They were close to winning the war against the Jews but they failed. Israel was born and blossomed but Palestinians have never stopped terrorism against Israel nor have they abjured their stated mission to drive Jews into the sea. The PLO and subsequent terrorist leaders of the Palestinians are bent on extermination of Jews in Israel and taking Israel. The Palestinians teach hatred and racial inferiority of Jews in their curriculum and culture. They rehash the Nazi propaganda of Protocols of the Elders of Zion etc...
It has been one war after another in the short life of Israel as Arabs may hate each other but they are united in their hatred of Jews. So while the treatment of Palestinians by Israelis has been in some instances deplorable especially by religious assholes and military, the legitimacy of the state of Israel is in light of other nations and their bloody history quite justifiable. Similarly the Palestinians have committed many unprovoked attacks. The threat of suicide bombing at any time and within any part of Israel has to be unnerving or something one learns to live with. Neither side is without blame.
If the Palestinians had simply accepted a 2 state solution and Arabs in general had not hated Jews so strongly none of the shit would have occurred. However the witness to history views the legitimacy of Israel and the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians it is in relation to the rest of history tame and subdued. Both the creation of the state of Israel and the conflict between the 2, is tame, mild and subdued in relation to histories' conquests, atrocities, and internecine conflicts.
And yet Jews get singled for their transgressions while the rest of the world gets a pass. The double standard stinks to high heaven. We see genocides that barely get a mention among the left. Who among the anti-zionist left can expatiate on the genocide of the Tutsis by the Hutus? How many know it even happened? If Jews were the Hutus i can only imagine how they would be portrayed by the left! It is hypocrisy and it is fueled by anti-semitism.
And as i have indicated there was a build-up of centuries of persecution of Jews throughout Europe culminating in the holocaust making the exodus to Israel exigent and inevitable. Religious justification for Israel is irrelevant. Whether a believer or an atheist and secular, Jews were simply bound to do exactly what they did. But unlike the example set by Europeans in which Europeans/Americans were unmitigated aggressors who lacked any justification for their actions the Jews had a real reason to do precisely what they did. It is laughable for a serial killer to vilify a dime store thief. As a side note it is interesting that the Druze of Israel seem more anti-Palestinian than the Jews of Israel....
Frankie, you wrote, "My words were nothing but satire."
Effective satire, humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule works best when the beliefs of the speaker or writer are known or when cleverly obvious.
"Plinius you are a racist, plain and simple."
Excuse me! It seems you have a way of expressing yourself that is crude, rude, and simplistic.
"In 1947 as unrest increased the UN proposed a plan to partition and create an Arab and a Jewish state. Jews accepted it. Arabs rejected it."
An agreement that has one side accepting and the other side rejecting it is not an agreement. It is doomed to failure.
You are confused Joan.
The quote comes after the satire. I spoke plainly and i stand by what i said. She is a racist so why should i couch my terms or be diplomatic?
Yes Joan it was the Palestinians intransigence which is based on their hatred of Jews that on the one hand had them reject the UN proposed plan and on the other hand had Jews celebrating. Next day Arabs attacked. And yes as long as the mindset of Palestinians is so virulently racist (read about it if you are curious..you will see what i mean) and as long as they want it all then there will not be peace.
Sure I discriminate, just like everyone else. I discriminate against people who think they have more rights than others, I discriminate against rapists, sexists, thieves and parasites, I discriminate against people who abuse their power, I discriminate against racists, I discriminate against intolerance. It's too easy to label me racist because I criticized a nation that has every reason to be ashamed of its conduct. I was not talking about the other nations and groups that are in the same category, that was not the subject of this thread. If you have more labels you want to use, store them carefully where the sun doesn't shine.
You are a frank and open racist...there is zero ambiguity in your words. Nothing to discuss there. You would embarrass Trump...or maybe not ...he might like you.
Some months ago we had an Israeli here who seemed to want our friendship. After some time she began to tell how happy she was to have killed more than twenty Palestinians and how good it felt to have tortured many more. We stopped the contact of course, and found out later that she had disappeared after having stolen from many people, leaving a trail of debts and empty promises.
Are you in the same category, Frankie?
Not that I believe your story Plinius but you have managed to surprise me again. To adduce an anecdote and imply that it is probative of all Jews is something an average 10 yr old knows is invalid.