"Advocates for domestic violence victims have long called for stricter laws governing firearms and protective orders. Their argument is rooted in a grim statistic: when women die at the hand of an intimate partner, that hand is more often than not holding a gun.

"In these most volatile of human dramas, they contend, the right to bear arms must give ground to the need to protect a woman’s life.

"In statehouses across the country, though, the N.R.A. and other gun-rights groups have beaten back legislation mandating the surrender of firearms in domestic violence situations. They argue that gun ownership, as a fundamental constitutional right, should not be stripped away for anything less serious than a felony conviction — and certainly not, as an N.R.A. lobbyist in Washington State put it to legislators, for the “mere issuance of court orders.”

In Some States, Gun Rights Trump Orders of Protection

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Replies to This Discussion

We need to place injunctions on toxic relationships.

What is an injunction and what would it do? 

A Court order to cease having a relationship.  Some people stay in toxic relationships way to long i.e. my brother who had his guns removed. I still believe it was the right thing; conversely, it kept him safe too, even though I do not believe he would have done something like that, I do like the safety measure, as it protects women from shooting their partner too.

The N.R.A. should have nothing to say about protective orders or interfere with them. The Life safety of an individual who is not acting outside the law trumps and limits the constitutional rights of another. 

As a formerly battered woman who does not own a gun but who defends your right to own one (with some reasonable limitations), I don't want anyone using this grave issue as a pawn in non-related political arguments.  It devalues those who are already victimized.  It over-simplifies a problem and, unfortunately, leaves women in these relationships thinking that there is no way out - because they are victims, after all. 

Well, There is a way out.  Our culture is wrong

I was a victim because my culture's worldview is so horrible and cruel.  I escaped when I was able to work out another worldview that I could depend on - to keep me safe - a worldview where there are no victims, but only powerful choosers. (There is such a worldview) 

Domestic violence is not about guns.  It's about power and control - over others as opposed to within self.

Perfectly and powerfully said! Great to read your comments. 

Yes, our culture does strongly influence and reinforce the marginalization of women to further our patriarchal culture that is inherited Bronze-Age male dominant thinking as if all kings of smaller sub kingdoms, which is further reinforced by religion's fight to control the womb. Ours is a culture that emboldens and rewards aggression which in turn stimulates and manifests the domestic violence and the rape culture. Men are indoctrinated from childhood with this as a manifesto of what being a real man is supposed to be. We need to challenge even acts of domination and lean towards mutual power and equal control over all aspects of cultural civility. This change  needs to come from both women and men who unwittingly further this paradigm because of their education and indoctrination.  I have heard educated, and intelligent women lambaste feminism as being too aggressive as they acted out their submissive role in their marriage, and the ERA has not been signed into law. This is something that even my mother would find as being counter to equality while she made all the meals. The problem is our past and our present devotion to someone being the ruler by force. Leadership by force of dominance pollutes a society and renders it uncivilized and abusive as it permeates our relationships with others. Our sex should not enslave us as women, nor should it dehumanize us as men.  Men, now, need a movement to become feeling, nurturing, and empathetic and more fully emotionally free in opposition to the role based stereo types, rather than try to bring women's rights backwards.

Jon T, you write compassionately and wisely. The really good news is there are very many men and women who stand shoulder to shoulder facing life's challenges with courage and determinations. The dumbing of USA, and indeed, of the world, that has been accomplished by religion, will end and hopefully with reasoning and conflict management. These processes require more skills than religious people learn in their indoctrination; to face them down is a challenge, and one worth the effort. We all benefit by replacing those old tribal beliefs and values. 

@Jon T

I am in the process of trying to write a book that shows how our culture became so depraved, contrasting it with peace-loving egalitarian cultures that our male-dominated culture tried to exterminate.  It will address the points that you make - including how and WHY the indoctrination that we call "schooling" or "education" came to be in government's interests.  I am tracing key components of our cultural institutions back to their roots.

After i finish laying out the problem, I will present a science-based and testable alternative for how we can get from where we are to a more sane place.  I need an articulate and passionate person to help me with editing.  Would you be willing to help?  I only started writing yesterday so it's  not like I would be dumping tons on you.  I have one chapter so far, but know where I'm going.  I wouldn't overload you because it takes time to find supporting evidence for all of my stunning claims.

If you are willing to help start a movement, I could use some help putting the framework together.  Friend me and send me a PM.





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