Hey although the group touches on the world of the exec's in business and business owners.... you don't have to be someone fancy with a big-deal title to have your say here.

If you have an interest in insidious nature of the way superstitious religious beliefs impact on commerce/employment/workplace.... then feel free to post your views and experiences on that.

Even if you're just heading out into the working world and starting your career...... you can state your new concerns and experiences here.

Don't feel you need to draft up impressive prose to be worthy of inclusion here. Just keep in mind the fact that the best senior exec's should feel comfortable with being able to communicate on the 'workshop floor' and be able to read between the lines. The person with the least experience might not be able to always speak with views that scope the wider picture..... but a great exec will notice the diamond comment when it's there amongst the rest of the expressions........ no matter how rough and uncut it is!

So be relaxed and speak about the impact of superstitions in the way you are suited to best.

Regards to you all!

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Replies to This Discussion

I read it! Boy am I glad I dont have to come up with impressive prose lol
Thanx for having me here and look forward to talking to you all
Bi Bi

That commission seems like an interesting challenge (re: the latter).
Who defines 'inspirational'?
Put weblinks to atheistnexus.org all over the website and see how that goes down.

I'm certain any input from a freethinking mind is worth more than a thousand bible classes!

The experiences of rational thinking individuals coming together to add our respective shreds of experience helps build the neural network that helps give a rational commentary on what happens in the workplace.

So you're right - your contribution adds to the data; but far from being less than terribly helpful it's people like yourself that are prepared to contribute that help highlight where paradigm paralysis places a road-block on greater understanding.

You might imagine how preposterous it would be now to discount Galileo Galilei's views on heliocentrism due to his failure to recite accurately on demand Psalm 93:1, Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5.

Even when you feel your need to contribute might be moving into territory that's 'off topic' .... I would rather see that as part of the process of minds that can see beyond fixed and outdated paradigms.

I'd rather view each of us as one 'unit' of rationality - with equal likelihood of being 'terribly helpful'.
I'm the operations manager for a 20 employee manufacturing company that makes super-precision parts for the pulp and paper industry. I can't say that religion has had a negative impact, but unscientific thinking and superstition are major problems I deal with every day.

My direct supervisor is the company president. He holds a bachelors degree in some sort of religious studies from a bible college and has no comprehension of scientific method. I will say that he is loyal, extremely honest, and good at talking to people which makes him a fantastic liaison between us and our customers. The problems arise when he gets involved in our manufacturing process.

Our main product is a stainless steel rod with high-precision threads. I won't bore anyone with the details of how the product is used, but when I say high-precision, I'm talking tolerances of +/- less than 30 nanometers. A human hair is around 100,000 nanometers in diameter. We also have threads that are much larger and have a much wider tolerance. The difficulty between manufacturing a small thread vs. a large thread is in the neighborhood of 3 orders of magnitude.

No matter how many times I explain this to my boss and no matter how many examples I give him of what an order of magnitude is, he still sees no difference between a large thread and a small thread. Because of this, he prices them them same to our customers, promises the same lead times, and offers products with tolerances that we aren't even capable of achieving.

Occasionally he will ask me to make something with a ridiculous tolerance and I will tell him that I'll try, but it'll probably just end up being an exercise in futility and will generate a bunch of scrap. He has actually told me that I shouldn't "curse" the parts and that I should "have faith." Attempts to explain that what I say will not have a physical impact on the parts and that the only thing I have faith in is physics and statistics are met with confused laughter.

So I would say that my Boss' inability to think scientifically has probably been a major hindrance to my company. His religion hasn't directly impacted us, but I believe his unreason is the root cause of his devout religious beliefs as well. Whichever way you slice it, he can be pretty damn frustrating to work for sometimes.
Thank-you for the comment Wes,

May I enquire for a little further detail on the entity?

How long has the company been in operation? How long has the entity operated in the capacity that it currently has? What length of involvement has the President had?
Lastly... had the President been someone of a secular outlook and not bound by some faith - do you anticipate a different track of development may have taken place... for instance... would you see the operation still having 20 employees and working at the same capacity?
Oddly enough my boss teaches a class every Wednesday night and I act as a teacher's assistant. We work in PR (Public Relations) and we have to have an answer for everything, and sometimes it hurts for us to be biased when talking to a potential client.

First of all it is very impolite to talk about politics, religion and sports in the work place... but sometimes its unavoidable. I would never directly ask someone how they feel about any of those topics unless I was covering a specific story about one of those topics.

I digress, my boss taught the class what you should do if you were asked an inappropriate question and this goes for almost anything you don't want to answer if you feel it could hurt you. Let's say someone asks you directly "what is your religion?" Should anyone, even a Christian, answer this directly? I don't, you have to tap dance around the issue in my field. If someone were to ask me that what my religion is, I may respond with something like this:

"You know, that's an interesting question. I come from a background of multiple faiths and diverse belief systems, but I never really defined myself as one faith or another. While I believe in many things, and respect everyone's right to practice any faith, or not. I don't think it would be true to say I practice a dogma, per se."

And then you move on to the next subject, probably by asking that person a question once you finish your answer. Your clients shouldn't be asking about personal information like that anyway.

As far as my co-workers go, the topic has never really come up. I'm friends with a lot of my co-workers on facebook and none of them have their religion posted. I honestly don't think anyone I work with is religious at all...

I go to lunch with another girl, Betsy, who practically has the same job I have, and we always see these jesus people preaching downtown, and we've made fun of them a lot. Betsy even told me outside of work one day that her roommate pulls that 'holier than thou" bullshit on her b/c she doesn't go to church. I said to her that it shouldn't matter if you go to church or not.
LoLo I note where you mention you have to tap dance around the issue in your field.... re: being asked directly about your faith; and on that topic -

*Has the question arisen in your case?
*Do you know where it has arisen for others?
I've been lucky enough to work with people who aren't religious. When I was in retail in college most of the people there were atheists, or they just hated religion. It was unique, but made for fun conversation once the customers left. Some of our customers were deeply religious, and they wore it on their sleeve....but we just made fun of them after they left.

Currently where I work no one has asked me about what I believe, I haven't even really talked to anyone about religion. We're too concerned about keeping clients than worry about religion.

I've only dealt with a few clients since I have been working there, and they all seem to be liberal enough to not really care about what I believe in. But I'm too polite of a person to bring up anything like that myself.

There is one kid I'm working with, he used to go to this private christian school, but tested out of the 12th grade and wanted to drop out. He said he didn't like high school at all. I've known many people who have gone to that particular private christian school he went to. They require that you take a bible class every semester, and they don't have a science curriculum. And there are two types of people who attend that school: Those who love it and never want to leave, they are creationists. Those who hate it but are too afraid to say anything, these people are usually agnostic/atheist.

Judging by how this kid talks about this private school, I don't think he's religious, and may be questioning his beliefs. But he's a minor, so even though I'd like to talk to him, to let him know there are other people who feel the same way... I'm not b/c i can't imagine the world of trouble I may get in if I interfere with his super religious family. It would look bad on me and my firm.
Thanks for the invite Dr Peter . So glad there is room for rough diamonds , i hope to try to do my best to keep my spelling under control .

Im not looking to excuse , but in my case religion had a big effect on my schooling.

You're welcome.

No need to feel any pressure to come up with textbook standard spelling/grammatical expression. There are plenty of skilled theist authors that write with spelling perfection; - a load of verbal refuse.

Feel free to tell us more about that point - 'in my case religion had a big effect on my schooling'.

And..... did that further follow on to have implications on your work career?
I have worked for several companies in and around Deventer (The Netherlands), never I have felt unwelcome because I don't have any religion. Sometimes, I had a discussion with my colleges what I believe (or to put it better, I don't). Religion doesn't realy make any difference on what people think of you, your actions do. Luckely this opion is shared by most of the people I have encoutered here, including the emigrants (mostly muslims, or hindus).

However, Deventer is an ancient city, with a population about 95.000 inhabitants, the population is liberal minded (Labour Party, Green Party and Liberal Parties dominate the city council). A few kilometers a way, the small villages of the Dutch Bible Belt dominate the landscape (calvinistic denomination)... I have never worked there.




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