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Obama endorses rights of Muslims to build Ground Zero community center

New York Times Article - hopefully it stays active (they don't alwa...

“This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.”

The president of the United States, enthusiastically upholding the very first sentence of the very first amendment of our Bill of Rights? Imagine that!

I for one give Obama a standing ovation. While I'm certainly not a fan of religion, and especially the gruesome, mutant, evil twins that are Islam and Christianity, in lieu of a secular planet, I for one am quite glad that 99.9% of the 1 billion Muslims on Earth are practicing the non-terrorism flavor of their faith. If it was a Christian fringe group that took down the World Trade Center, I'm betting the happy-fluffy-Jesus crowd would be stumbling over themselves to build a church at Ground Zero as a way of saying "Our faith is normally way more peaceful than that, really." (And as a way to prey on the grief of the victims' families, but that's another discussion).

Just like my support of freedom of speech means supporting the rights of assholes to say offensive crap, I may not like the religion but so long as they aren't actively breaking any laws, I fully support their right to practice it.

Meanwhile, a black, Democratic president with a funny, Muslim-sounding name, daring to say publicly that the Constitution applies to everyone, not just Conservative Christians?!?

Cue the Rightwing outrage in 3...2...1...

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on August 22, 2010 at 9:02am

Do you think they don't know it is there?

Permalink Reply by sk8eycat on August 22, 2010 at 9:27am

Most of the people who are doing all the whining have probably never been out of the Buybull Belt, much less visited Lower Manhattan.

Except the media's hyper-conservative cheerleaders. I can't believe any of them have ever been to J-School...or learned the meaning of the words, "objective," and "neutral."

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on August 29, 2010 at 1:04pm

Buybull Belt

I can't believe I've never seen 'bible' spelled that way before.

Win.

Permalink Reply by sk8eycat on August 29, 2010 at 2:18pm

"buybull" ... I think I saw that spelling used on another atheist forum about 10 years ago. It's certainly useful...as an expression of disdain, and to point out that to be a True Believer, a person has to buy a lotta bull.

I live with my 65-year-old mildly autistic JeeeHoover's Witless sister, and the telephone conversations she has with members of her congregation are just unbelievable. For instance, they can go on for hours about the proper way to pronounce, "YHWH." *sigh*

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on August 29, 2010 at 6:09pm

It's not even freedom of religion, though. It's more basic than that. They want to use a piece of land/building which they bought/leased from someone who was perfectly willing to sell/lease to them. They want to do something with the land/building which is perfectly legal ... and you're trying to tell them they can't do that? That doesn't even make it to freedom of religion, before your thinking goes wrong.

Permalink Reply by sk8eycat on August 29, 2010 at 7:02pm

If they have the rights to the property, why can't they use it for whatever lawful purpose they have in mind?

And ... It. Is. Not. (intended to be) A. Mosque! They want to build a community center, not unlike a YMCA or YMHA, which will include prayer/meditation rooms. What's the big deal? If it were a Buddhist (or Wiccan) community center would anybody be complaining? I don't bloody think so. How about a no-kill animal shelter with meditation rooms dedicated to Bubastis/Bastet/Bast? I'd go for that in a heartbeat.

The idea that Lower Manhattan should now be declared "holy" by anybody because an obscenity took place there 9 years ago is just...well... religiulous. Does that also make the Pentagon sacred now? And/or that field in Pennsylvania? People seem to have forgotten about those two places...why? Because nobody caught those crashes on cameras and reran them a hundred thousand times on television. "If it's not on TV, it didn't happen." Good. Neither was the crucifiction ever televised...what does that say about it (if "god" is supposed to be all-powerful)? This whole ugly squabble is showing the rest of the world what superstitious bigots and hypocrites a large and loud proportion of Americans really are.

I'm ashamed of us.

Permalink Reply by Susan Stanko on August 29, 2010 at 8:28pm

(or Wiccan) community center

Actually, many people would go batshit crazy of that.

Permalink Reply by Joseph P on August 29, 2010 at 10:15pm

I can't think of a better reason to do it.

Permalink Reply by sk8eycat on August 29, 2010 at 10:56pm

I know. I just tossed it in there as a f'r instance, and a laugh. But I don't think as many people would object to a Wiccan community center, nor would FAUX Noose make such a big deal out of it. Well, the Coulter person probably would screech and carry on, but I think she would love it if we brought back the Salem witch trials. She'd sit there knitting and smiling a la Mme. De Farge,

The really silly thing is that the neighborhood has quite a few bars and strip clubs, and nobody claimed they were sullying "hallowed ground."

I just object to the whole "hallowed ground" thing. Especially since the area that was directly under the WTC is going to be a shopping mall. And they are restoring, or have restored, the subway stations that were under there. How "holy" is that?

Pleh.

Permalink Reply by John Secular Smith on August 30, 2010 at 7:34am

So, how can the government "respect no establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof" if they start deciding who can build certain religious institutions where? Should we allow certain religions to build buildings of worship, and not others? Should we allow no one to build buildings of worship?

What if a group of atheists get together and build a building to have meetings? Would that be allowed? What if a group of Christians go in on a house out in the country together, and pray there on weekends?

even their own book says to hide in a closet to pray and never do so aloud....so WTF??

And as SOON as the government tells them to follow that, they are prohibiting the free exercise of that religion. Free exercise means the ability to ignore in inflate any part of religion.

Allowing Muslims to build a mosque anywhere that is legal has NOTHING to do with RESPECTING their beliefs. It is about respecting their rights. Their beliefs are SHIT. But they, or the Christians, or the Scientologists can build wherever they want so long as they abide by the law in doing so.

Damn, I you really this damn dense you don't understand the difference between respecting someone's faith and tolerating their Constitution-required freedoms? You know what, I think I'm calling troll. Have a nice life with the aliens.

Permalink Reply by Jason Spicer on August 30, 2010 at 12:52pm

Agreed, SG. For the government to prohibit this use of a building simply on the grounds that it's got some Islam stuck to it and it's so close to "sacred ground" would be a First Amendment trifecta. A tricky achievement, it would violate at least three clauses, the Free Exercise, the Establishment, and the Peacable Assembly clauses.

I'm strenuously opposed to religion generally, but I believe in freedom of conscience, which is what the First Amendment is all about.

Permalink Reply by Jo Jerome on August 30, 2010 at 1:40pm

As they support repeal of the 17th and 14th amendments, as they had no complaint when Bush and the Patriot Act overrode the 4th and 5th amendments, and are calling out for this 1st amendment repeal trifecta, I keep hearing the Rightwing whine about how Obama is destroying the constitution.