Ok, this isn't a take-off on a previous discussion, here.  It's just that I'm really beginning to get a bit concerned.  It seems to be in style these days to declare that one does not want children, and quite frankly, I'm finding it rather depressing.  I've always wanted to get married and have a family, and it seems my chances are getting steadily thinner. There just seems to be so much hostility around; merely mentioning that you want kids is liable in most places to get you nasty comments, which, ironically enough, usually come from women who themselves have children.  A nice bit of hypocrisy, there, if you appreciate that sort of thing. 

I'm really hoping that this anti-child attitude is the exception rather than the rule among women today.  It is, isn't it?  Anyone?

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FYI, people *should* ask women that question.  Anyone who wants to have children should have to answer if they can emotionally, physically, and financially provide for them.  People should critically examine if they can provide for children when they decide to have them.  However, because the desire to have children is inherently an emotional rather than rational decision, people rarely stop to think about it.

Also, is there a reason you're resorting to name calling?

Yes, I'm calling a spade a spade. When you stop attacking, I'll stop saying that you're attacking.

It's interesting that not once in all this have you ever actually addressed the question I originally posted. Everything has just been a criticism of my choices.

As to your proposed question:  It sounds good, but the problem is that no one can ever completely predict what will happen 5, 10, 15 or 30 years from now. You can plan really well, and unpredictable things can still happen. I agree with you that it would be great if everyone thought about things BEFORE having kids but most don't.

However, *I* have. I'm healthy, have an excellent income, a home that's paid off, and in general, am in a very good position to have and raise children.  Certainly a lot better than if I was 22 and just starting out.

How about you?  Did you plan your kids beforehand?  Did you wait until your were financially prepared for them?  (Honest question, here.)

I really don't understand why you are so angry that someone else would want children. Didn't YOU want children?

My goodness.  It seems you aren't even bothering to differentiate between the people you're arguing with anymore.  You're just mindlessly lashing out at any and everyone.

I have no children and want no children.  I do, however, have a kitten who I very thoroughly planned for and knew I could support.  He's absolutely adorable, even if he does have a penchant for jumping up on the kitchen counter and on top of my PC.

My apologies, I must indeed have gotten mixed up on that one. 

Very well, I will modify my response:

I really don't understand why you are so angry that someone else would want children. You seem utterly incensed that I would want to have a family. Do you walk around lashing out at everyone you see who is pushing a baby carriage?  No? Then why are you so critical of me for wanting such a normal thing?

I'm hardly angry that anyone wants children, so I've not a clue where you're even getting that from.  I do think it's absolutely irresponsible to have children when you're unable to provide from them, though.  I don't see how that's an angry position at all, only a reasonable and rational one.

What I'm angry about are the assumptions you made when broaching this topic.  Whether or not you intended to, you came off as quite offensive.  You made a women's reproductive choice seem like a personal offense to you and a detriment to society.  The fact that you used the word "hostility" when describing women who expressed a desire to not have children, and then went on to describe women who didn't want more children as hypocrites set the tone as entirely antagonistic without question. 

Go back and consider what you wrote with an unbiased eye and then you'll understand why you're getting the response you are.

Once again, you are deliberately mis-stating everything I said, in an apparent effort to make it look wrong.

I used the word 'hostility' when describing someone who was being critical of my desire to have children. Whether they themselves had children or not was not the issue. 

I described as 'hypocritical' women who have children themselves, yet criticize other people who make the same choice.  That IS hypocrisy. 

If you (or anyone else) doesn't want children is fine by me. Just stop attacking me for not agreeing with you! 

It's pretty obvious that I'm getting these responses from you because you were itching to pick a fight.  Please note that the one person who simply stated a preference, and did not attack mine, got no argument.  You did, because you chose to find fault with my preferences.

I misread your post.  I thought you said something about many women already have children are angry at the mention of having children and they do not wish to have anymore.  I was giving a reason to why they don't want to have anymore children.  But...that wasn't even your question.  Sheesh.  My bad.

Depending on how you're going about announcing you want the wife and kids part of marriage, I might see where you're getting nasty comments.  After all, if you're assuming the kids part comes with the marriage part, well... have you considered adoption as a single parent if you're really wanting to have kids that badly?

See, declining birth rates might just correspond to women having more options than just being the de facto home/baby maker.  While I'm not trying to be antagonistic in pointing this out, women really do have a lot more to do these days. Women are more educated, more career driven, and are able to plan a life apart from depending on a man to be the breadwinner (or even co-breadwinner).  Once you leave behind the biblical imperative to go forth, multiply, and submit to the head of your household, I'm sure it's a much bigger challenge to find someone who just blindly wants children without considering the implications.

I, personally, have no desire to have children.  I have a home to maintain, a career to pursue, and find value in my life in a myriad of other ways.  I know that children are a huge obligation and expense.  For me (someone who values being rational and reasonable) having children does not make sense.  I have no biological imperative screaming at me to pass along my genes.  I take responsibility for my own birth control to make sure that I don't inadvertently get pregnant.  Should I ever make the decision to become a parent, I would likely adopt.  I'm observant enough to see what motherhood has done to those around me, both successful and otherwise.  While I know many mothers who wouldn't trade their children for anything, I also see many mothers who are stressed, financially strapped, and who struggle with a feeling of being trapped by the circumstance of having children.

So, if you have the real desire and means to become a parent, embrace it.  Adopt.  There are so many children who need homes and support that you could make a real difference.  However, if this is just about being a "manly/real man" and passing on your genes, I would re-evaluate your position.

You have completely missed the point. 

First of all, adoption is not an option for single men. Adoption agencies are free to write their own rules, and can discriminate on any basis they care to, and single men are simply not allowed to adopt. At all. I know, I checked.  The agency simply states that it's "in the best interests of the child", and that is that.

Second, your response completely ignores everything I said, and is not helpful.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the desire to have children, and it has nothing to do with "being manly", as most women feel the same way. 

Adoption is not an option for single men:

A quick Google search indicated that there are currently no legal issues with singles of either gender adopting.  Adoption does not occur only through an agency.  Now, perhaps the cultural mindset is changing and this has been the case since you last pursued the issue, but it seems that I can think of several notable adoptive parents (granted this is all pop culture periphery on my part) who happened to be both male and single. 

Quite frankly, I'm not convinced you're not trolling.  You seem to discount everyone who doesn't agree with you.  You approach (I'm assuming) women for their input on your question, which, intended or not, came off as rather abrasive.  You essentially wave a red flag and go "WIMMINS, Y U NO WANT BABY?" (hyperbole, but I'm striving to make a point). 

A more constructive way to have a conversation would be this:

It seems that the cultural emphasis on child bearing is diminishing.  As someone who would like to, at some point, get married and have a family, what are some of the issues that are impacting women today and the choices they might make when considering to have children?

As it stands, I'm somehow not shocked women aren't lined up to take you up on your offer.

I said nothing about LEGAL issues.  Adoption agencies may write their own rules in this case; they can arbitrarily disqualify anyone, for any reason, or none at all. I'm not going to spend hours arguing with you, it's their rule, not  mine, and I'm not defending it.

You aren't disagreeing with me, nor are you agreeing - you're simply attacking me, and criticizing.  Please stop.

I was seeking either some encouragement, sympathy, helpful suggestions or at least validation. Instead, it's been all personal attacks, hostility, criticism, snide remarks and snotty comments. 

Take this as you will:  I was trying to explain to you that your approach has been exactly what you're accusing everyone else of doing.  While none of the responses to you (save my last) have been in the least deliberately antagonistic, you've played the victim at every turn and downplayed every response.

Let me interpret what your reply came across as:

"I was seeking either some encouragement, sympathy, helpful suggestions or at least validation."

Translation:  I wanted someone to say what I wanted to hear.

Sorry, it just doesn't work like that.  If you want to have a discussion with women about why we may not want to have kids, try approaching us in a far less antagonistic manner and be willing to listen to what we say.




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