Can I quit my involuntary celibacy without having to get married?
First, some rather basic observations:
1. All men and all women have companionship needs (or sexual needs or however you think I should best call it).
2. You cannot just choose to make your libido go away, or you cannot quit having the need. Everybody has the need, no matter whether somebody is a priest or the president or anybody, no matter which religion you were brainwashed into. You will have the need even if you do not want to have the need. You can pretend you do not have the need but you will still have it.
3. Involuntary celibacy is a label some men used in certain places online to describe their situation of being seriously unhappy in life because they can't find a woman.
4. I was raised Jewish. I was taught that I had to "marry Jewish." I was taught that only married people have sex. I was afraid to talk to non-Jewish women until a little after I turned 27. I was afraid to talk about man-woman relationships until I was 26. I felt like sex was a sin or something disgusting, or like if I ever was with a woman it would be like the worst humiliation or embarrassment of my life. I thought if I had a kid it would be the worst embarrassment of my life because everybody would figure out that I had sex.
5. I had an argument or discussion with my aunt and mother where they jumped to several conclusions:
-sex automatically =s pregnancy which =s severe legal problems if I am not married.
-if you have a kid and you are not married, very bad things will happen.
-If I do not want to get married but I still want to meet women, this means I want to have so called "one night stands" - but actually I do want a woman who will not just leave me and will like me for as long as possible unless our personalities change so that we can't live with each other or stand to be around each other anymore.
My thought is that when people want to get married it is like shouting, hey government, you do not know us, you do not know whether we are compatible with each other, but can we pay you to give us a piece of paper that says we are legally associated with each other so we will avoid feeling too guilty due to the possibility of being with somebody without being married?
What kind of bad things will happen if me and a woman are with each other without being married? (Hint: we will not get struck by lightening and religion is horseshit and I don't want the government to have anything to do with man-woman relationships). If a woman likes me enough, she would not want to just leave me and she would not just steal all my money, in which marriage should be just a silly psychological thing or an obsessive-compulsive behavior or a bizarre waste of money, and if I think a woman I want to like actually likes me so little that I think she is likely to just leave me (and steel all my stuff, in which case the government will always be in her favor), why would I want to be with her, marriage or no marriage? And then women are taught that they have to plan a really fancy, expensive party and wear an outfit that she will only wear once which will cost hundreds to thousands of dollars... I never want to have a joint bank account and I can't just let women use me for money or free stuff.
You seem to have some really weird ideas about adult relationships if your seriously asking this question in the way you asked it. I'd suggest professional counseling if you really worry about these things.
But to answer your question:
No you don't need to be married to have healthy sexual relationships. Be safe and always use protection for both pregnancy and STDs.
There are also reasons atheist might want to get married; A bow to customs or to publicly and legally declare their intentions for a relationship as well as the legal status for tax benefits (which are bullshit) and other rights it simplifies like hospital visitations and care decisions, etc....
If your worried about your money and property and you actually have enough prior to the marriage you can always have a prenuptial agreement made legal to protect it.
The ceremony can also be done fairly inexpensively as I've had friends get married in jeans out in the forest with friends and friends certified to legally marry doing a non-religious ceremony.
Your ideas about women seem to be rather low. I'd really suggest finding a non-religious councilor and getting some relationship counseling. It might help remove some of the religious ideas about relationships and women you seem stuck with.
My mother already took me to 3 psychiatrists when I was a kid due to my selective mutism/ social anxiety problem and I saw a psychologist a few times when I was 28 and he was pissed at the idea of me thinking I am autistic, mentally retarded, or otherwise low functioning.
I have always felt like sex would be the most terrible embarrassment of my life. According to gut reaction I felt like sex is a sin and man-woman relationships are like a sin. And I felt like in case I found a woman and she became pregnant, then the first time after when I would go in public, everybody would see me and read my mind and know I had sex, and I would be in the worst embarrassment of my life. And when I was a kid and the doctor handled the mutilated remains of my genitals I wished I could kick his head through the wall. Now I am not necessarily trying to be funny. I am saying this in a matter of fact unfunny manner - do typical men have sex frequently or infrequently and doesn't religion say sex is like a sin and are YOU able to be with women and if so how??
I thought I had to have a Jewish wedding and marry a Jewish woman in order to have any kind of man-woman relationship, until I was 27, and when I found out there is such a thing as just getting married by a judge this sounded just as dirty as being with a woman without getting married. Now, wouldn't getting married by such a terrible, horrible embarrassment? These are supposed to be real questions. Did marriage exist fifty thousand years ago and would you have invented marriage if you had never heard of it? I thought maybe being an atheist means I don't have to just do behaviors just because a behavior is a tradition or custom.
Nah, you're definitely not low-functioning, from an intellectual perspective. You just have significant social/emotional issues. There could be some mild autism there, but I'm not a psychologist. I've only had enough education on the subject to be dangerous.
I guess there's something to the embarrassment angle. I have difficulty putting myself back in that exact mindset, but there's a certain amount of acclimation to the idea of being naked, lying there right next to someone and cuddling with them ... particularly if you were raised within a religious background, being sexually shamed by your parents and elders.
So, umm, this bit puzzles me:
... then the first time after when I would go in public, everybody would see me and read my mind and know I had sex, and I would be in the worst embarrassment of my life.
Why would you be embarrassed that people knew you had just had sex with a woman? In most parts of society, there's a fucked-up double-standard that favors you. A guy is often considered to be manly, for having sex with lots of women, while a woman is likely to be shamed for the same behavior.
I'm just puzzled why you seem to be projecting the wrong side of the double-standard onto yourself. You're a guy, the last time I checked. Embrace the fucked-up social standards, at least partially, if they'll provide you with an emotional crutch. Just don't let them turn you into an asshole about it; don't completely internalize them.
... do typical men have sex frequently or infrequently and doesn't religion say sex is like a sin and are YOU able to be with women and if so how??
I'm not sure it's that easy to summarize something like this. There's such a wide spectrum, such that any attempt to provide an example of a 'typical man' is going to fail horribly and exclude most of the population.
Sure, most modern religions say that sex outside of marriage is a sin. I haven't given a fuck about what any religion says for a very long time, though ... particularly when someone tries to impose upon my life with their religious bullshit.
You're also forgetting about the level of hypocrisy displayed by most believers. I've heard plenty of fundie girls slut-shame some other girl who's sleeping with her own boyfriend, but it's different with the slut-shamer's own boyfriend, because they've been dating for over a month, and they're in love.
You're better off telling anyone who doesn't approve of you to fuck off, if they can't provide some constructive advice.
and when I found out there is such a thing as just getting married by a judge this sounded just as dirty as being with a woman without getting married. Now, wouldn't getting married by such a terrible, horrible embarrassment?
Uhhhhhh, wha? How would that be an embarrassment, in any way? Do you mean because of your family members who would disapprove?
Are you financially independent from your parents? If so, the same fuck-off rule can apply to them as well, if they're just going to be heaping emotional abuse upon you constantly. It sounds like they've done enough of that, already.
I thought maybe being an atheist means I don't have to just do behaviors just because a behavior is a tradition or custom.
So, don't get married. I know couples who have been together for years and aren't married. Some of them have kids. Most people get married, when it's obvious they're going to be together for the foreseeable future, for the legal protections and the tax benefits, but not all do.
Similarly, if you're dating a girl, and she refuses to have sex until you're married to her ... and you don't want to get married anytime soon ...
Well, that could be a relationship deal-breaker, right there.
...then the first time after when I would go in public, everybody would see me and read my mind and know I had sex, and I would be in the worst embarrassment of my life.
Being raised Jewish and being raised Catholic might do the same kind of harm, AND IT IS HARM. I was in a Catholic school when I feared that anything sexual I did would play on a screen on my forehead and everyone would see it.
My dad was as silent as a stone about sex but my mom made an attempt when she told me about menstruation. I pretended I wasn't listening but was soaking up every word.
I quit Catholicism in college, but without first undoing the harm I married a woman I met during a year in grad school. We separated in a friendly-enough way, but I began to deal with the harm and recover when, in San Francisco, I took the training to became a sex educator at SF Sex Information. I talked with others there and with hundreds of callers and in a while was telling people the work was a wonderful remedy for twelve years in Catholic schools.
I wish you well, Michael. BUT RAISING KIDS IS HARD WORK and the world has no great need for more people.
I was going to give me own analysis of your initial post, when you first posted it, but I'm having difficulty not going down the list and replying to everything with a, "Uhhh, that's messed up. Where did you get that idea?"
Do you want me to do that, now that I'm in a slightly more constructive mindset? There's still going to be a lot of negative, but I'll explain everything, hopefully well enough that you'll be able to take some benefit from it.
I've had sex with men that I've not been married to. In fact, every man I've had sex with is a man I haven't been married to....however, they didn't have such a poor outlook on themselves or on women. Have you ever thought of like....you know....just....NOT thinking all women are gold diggers who are out to "steal all your money?" You may not believe female intuition exists, but we can generally sense when a man has a shitty attitude towards us and you REEK of it. I'm not saying this to be mean. I'm saying this because I think it will help. Despite what they tell you in rap videos and Maxim, treating women like shit does not actually get women to like you and want to have sex with you.
It sounds like you want a woman to invest lot in you ("but actually I do want a woman who will not just leave me and will like me for as long as possible") but you don't want to invest anything in her (she's just going to "use me for money or free stuff"). What kind of bargain is that for a woman? A guy who wants her to be totally dedicated and in love with him but who spends all his time being suspicious that she might -GASP- want to marry him...because she clearly only wants to do that because she's been sold a misshapen fairy tale view of life and just wants to be a spoiled little princess for a day after which she will just take advantage of him and steal his money.....(FYI, traditionally the BRIDE'S family pays for the wedding). Yes, that is how bad you sound. I don't think any woman who read this would date you and it's not because we're all going, "Aw man, he's not gonna let me have money or free stuff!" It's because your shitty attitude toward women is painfully obvious. Until that changes, I'm afraid I don't have too much advice.
Lots of PEOPLE...not just the half of the species I belong to...but lots of men and women like the idea of marriage even if they're not religious or even if they think it's "not natural." The fact that it's not natural....well for one, that's a stupid argument for anything EVER because 90% of everything humans do is not natural...like wearing clothes and sitting in front of computers and getting jobs and driving cars....but also the fact that it's not natural makes it more special to a lot of people because they're willing to give up their baser instincts for someone they really love. Also, a lot of people like that idea of a real promise that has actual consequences if broken. Sure, we can all "promise" shit, but when you're willing to put really put yourself in actual legal trouble to make sure you keep that promise, that makes a lot of people feel more stable. You seem to want that stability in a woman but don't want to reciprocate because you see yourself as some great guy but you see women as golddigging whores who are gonna take your money and run. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
My advice is to stay off the MRA boards where you clearly hang out and start trying to actively meet people, not just women. Find something fun to do that is not solely a place to "pick up chicks." Just get out of the house! Lots of men who complain that they "can't" get a woman are men who expect women to appear from the mists and fall magically in their laps. Also, a lot of men who complain they "can't" get women are men who have unrealistic expectations of women....sorry, but you're not going to bag a supermodel. That's just a fact you better get used to. I don't know if you're the kind of person with these deluded thoughts, but I'm just throwing it out there. I reiterate, drop the shitty attitude toward women. It's NEVER going to do you any favors.
Sure, we can all "promise" shit, but when you're willing to put really put yourself in actual legal trouble to make sure you keep that promise, that makes a lot of people feel more stable.
Reminds me of this comic:
It's a bit hyperbolic, but it does expose the lie of a lot of the romantic cliches ... and of course it's quite amusing.
Good to see you back around and about, by the way, Katie.
What is an MRA board??
When people want to get married, what is really happening is that they think they have to get the government to give them permission to engage in man-woman relationships (sex, and so on). I suggest that religion invented marriage because religion wants you to have to get permission from the religious leaders before you engage in any kind of relationship because religion cares who you are with because religion wants to make sure the religion gets passed on to your children. I was actually taught to "marry Jewish." I was taught that any woman I meet has to be Jewish, so that my kids will be raised Jewish.
But now that I don't believe in the religion, how does it still make sense to have to get a government to give me and a woman permission to engage in man-woman relationships?
There is a 99% chance I will not have children.
I never want to have a joint bank account with any woman.
Unless you convince me otherwise, I will not pay for a woman on a date, because I should not have to let women just use me for free stuff or free entertainment just because they are a woman due to pure genetic accident and I happen to be a man.
I want a woman who makes an effort to keep talking to me.
I went to a salsa dance event and asked this woman whether she came by herself, and she said, "no, I came with a friend", in a put off, snooty, what-the hell-are-you-asking-for, arrogant, holier-than-thou manner, then stepped 3 feet away and began looking all over the crowd like she was searching for somebody. The music was too loud. I go to salsa dance events and I am on a bowling league. Bowling is the least sexual activity there is.
Since summer 2013 I have met the following women: earlier this year I got a girl at a salsa dance event to give me her phone number, but then she never answered the phone. She let me use her to practice salsa dancing for 20 minutes.
Before women quit writing anything to me on online dating websites, I got an obese girl I met online to meet me for bowling, but then while we were sitting in a panera bread store, she told me that she was depressed and had an episode where she could not sleep for 8 days and her parents had to take her to the hospital, and her parents had just left on a month long vacation. She was the same age I am.
Another time I got a girl to meet me for bowling, on a friday, she was taller than me but not obese, but the Tuesday before, she quit talking to me and at bowling she barely made an effort to talk but she talked but only when I talked first, and right when the games we paid for ended, she was eager for me to leave while she stayed in the bowling place, and her brother and dad were there, on a men's only league that was on half the lanes, and her brother stopped by us for 30 or 45 seconds to check up on things...