Time for Humanists to stop parroting the lies of BigPharma, atheists speak up for critical thinking in all topics

What happens when Humanists blindly believe in every lie told by BigPharma

I can't count how many times a week I tell gnu-atheistic-Humanists to stop the ridiculous mantra of "believing in science". Specially relevant when it comes to "believing in BigPharma". Even more true when the people parroting that shit know absolutely nothing about science, have no scientific training, and think that critical thinking should be left at the door as soon as BigPharma opens it's well funded mouth.

To "believe" in science is about as stupid and dangerous as believing in gods because the scientific industry is not controlled by a bunch of kind hearted honest transparent decent humans. No, a large swath of the scientific industry is populated by a bunch of greedy bastards (namely BigPharma) who'd push any crap onto us to make a buck.

Here's just another in an endlessly long list of problem products pushed onto populations by BigPharma as well as Humanists who just parrot the press releases of BigPharma. I can't count the number of discussions on various atheist-Humanist forums where Humanists come out and say that people who won't take vaccines are stupid idiots and ruining everything for everybody. Humanists are religious about their faith in industrial science, and this does nothing to advance critical thinking. The next time I hear a Humanist spout hateful nonsense about people who don't want to take vaccines I think I'm going to mentally slap'em

OK, pardon the rant... on with news that affects females...

Lead Developer Of HPV Vaccines Comes Clean, Warns Parents & You...

NOTE: Before you read the article, here is an intro to this person Diane Harper.

She was the principal investigator of the clinical trials of Gardasil and Cervarix, vaccines against HPV. (Wikipedia)

Now on with the article:

Dr. Diane Harper was the lead researcher [note the many references to her articles in the Wikipedia HPV vaccine article] in the development of the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccines, Gardasil™ and Cervarix™.  She is now the latest in a long string of experts who are pressing the red alert button on the devastating consequences and irrelevancy of these vaccines.  Dr. Harper made her surprising confession at the 4th International Converence on Vaccination which took place in Reston, Virginia.  Her speech, which was originally intended to promote the benefits of the vaccines, took a 180-degree turn when she chose instead to clean her conscience about the deadly vaccines so she “could sleep at night”.  The following is an excerpt from a story by Sarah Cain:

“Dr. Harper explained in her presentation that the cervical cancer risk in the U.S. is already extremely low, and that vaccinations are unlikely to have any effect upon the rate of cervical cancer in the United States.  In fact, 70% of all HPV infections resolve themselves without treatment in a year, and the number rises to well over 90% in two years.  Harper also mentioned the safety angle.  All trials of the vaccines were done on children aged 15 and above, despite them currently being marketed for 9-year-olds.  So far, 15,037 girls have reported adverse side effects from Gardasil™ alone to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), and this number only reflects parents who underwent the hurdles required for reporting adverse reactions.  At the time of writing, 44 girls are officially known to have died from these vaccines.  The reported side effects include Guillian Barré Syndrome (paralysis lasting for years, or permanently — sometimes eventually causing suffocation), lupus, seizures, blood clots, and brain inflammation.  Parents are usually not made aware of these risks.  Dr. Harper, the vaccine developer, claimed that she was speaking out, so that she might finally be able to sleep at night.  ’About eight in every ten women who have been sexually active will have HPV at some stage of their life,’ Harper says.  ’Normally there are no symptoms, and in 98 per cent of cases it clears itself.  But in those cases where it doesn’t, and isn’t treated, it can lead to pre-cancerous cells which may develop into cervical cancer.’” 

Although these two vaccines are marketed as protection against cervical cancer, this claim is purely hypothetical.  Studies have proven “there is no demonstrated relationship between the condition being vaccinated for and the rare cancers that the vaccine might prevent, but it is marketed to do that nonetheless.  In fact, there is no actual evidence that the vaccine can prevent any cancer.  From the manufacturers own admissions, the vaccine only works on 4 strains out of 40 for a specific venereal disease that dies on its own in a relatively short period, so the chance of it actually helping an individual is about about the same as the chance of her being struck by a meteorite.”

Tags: Humanism, big pharma, bigpharma, critical thinking, scepticism, vaccines, women's health

Views: 339

Replies to This Discussion

Except that if you want to counter the "lies of Big Pharma", a (self-admitted) rant is not how to do it.  The way to counter bad science is good science, and studies do expose problems with pharmaceuticals. 

I've heard the big money-makers for pharmaceutical companies are not vaccines - something that is done once with a given person - but rather drugs for the common chronic problems like high cholesterol and high blood pressure and diabetes - that people stay on for decades.  If you really want to expose social problems related to pharmaceutical companies, it would be a lot more relevant to discuss what is wrong with our society that makes the chronic problems so common. 

I don't know the situation with Gardasil - maybe it really is unnecessary.  But, "adverse events" reported as associated with a vaccine, aren't necessarily caused by the vaccine.  Showing that requires careful scientific investigation - not propaganda. 

The scientist Diane Harper who is denouncing this is not a propagandist, she was front and centre in the development of these vaccines. And there is tons of good science telling us to calm down about trying to vaccinate for every little ailment that comes our way. (I had measles, chickenpox, mumps, and rubella as a kid, they're nothing, and Humanists campaigning to make such vaccines mandatory are scientifically ridiculous).

My irritation is not solely with BigPharma but with the certain percentage of atheists who consider themselves Humanists who pushed this as if BigPharma were paying them.

You may (or not) remember a couple of years ago when the vaccine first got marketed, and Humanists all over these forums were not showing any critical thinking whatsoever and screaming at everyone that these HPV vaccines should be mandatory in schools, and that parents against mandatory vaccines were idiots. You may not have been in those discussions, but to hear Humanists speak on these matters, without proof, you'd think that they were paid thugs for BigPharma.

I'm dying to see a split in the atheist movement and have Humanists stop trying to speak for the atheist movement as a whole, cuz I think it's detrimental to have people lying about their ability to think critically.
I seem to remember us two having good conversations in the past, so I hope this will continue, even if we agree to disagree.Pro-mandatory-vaxers are one of the reasons I've backed away from my online atheist conversations, cuz I was tired of all the blind faith displayed by Humanists.
Yes it takes time to get science right, and when Humanists take everything BigPharma says at face value, that is beneficial to our health.

So my rant is not directed at BigPharma, it is directed at the mouthpieces for BigPharma, which are very present on these forums. The other is the machoism and MRA ideas which are at the core of Humanism.

The article does little to invalidate. It is loaded with assumptions as to her reasons/motivations, which are no more solid than the rest. The point is still that Humanists on these forums were out there being mouthpieces for BigPharma wanting to make a very moderately effective vaccine MANDATORY for female students, for a ailment that is to begin with of little concern.

Not much better than people peddling home remedies to cure a sore throat, an ailment which leaves on its own anyway.

Humanists chanting that HPV vaccination be mandatory, as soon as the vaccine was marketed, makes no scientific sense.
The list of pharmaceutical products which have been removed from the market is very long. Not completely unlike a certain flu vaccine which has now been discontinued in many parts of Europe, because the rates of narcolepsy saw a sharp rise only in that population. That particular vaccine (the adjuvant was the problem, but still not understood) was not used in North America, and this is the reason internet science needs to be careful, because a small reliable fact in one geography may not be relevant in another geography.

I am not saying that EVERYTHING that comes out of the pharmaceutical industry is bad, only that we must have a critical mind, because BigPharma is not above reproach and has been wrong very often.

So when Humanism, as a movement, acts as a mouthpiece for BigPharma, jumping on every single product and pushing it to be mandatory, that is faulty thinking.

EDIT: on products of marginal value, the Humanist movement should refrain from saying anything short of MANDATORY is the desired action.

It does seem to me that you are, in fact, saying that everything that comes out of Big Pharma is bad, and then you cite the anti-hpv vax as a prime example of what is wrong with big pharma, You use an article that was posted years ago and is riddled with distortions and untruths as your proof.

When she was contacted by press members after the original article was posted, Dr. Harper called all reports "made up." She also clearly identified herself as a vaccine supporter. That most certainly invalidates the entire original article.

This passage (one of many) is a prime example of the deliberate attempt to mislead because there is a huge difference between the death rate of cervical cancer and the diagnosis rate, which are two very different numbers:

 “The rate of serious adverse events (from Gardasil) is on par with the death rate of cervical cancer,” admitted Dr. Harper at that time, refuting a pro-Gardasil piece published by Slate. “Gardasil has been associated with at least as many serious adverse events as there are deaths from cervical cancer developing each year.”

 And what vaxes are you claiming as "MANDATORY?" Guardasil is not a vax that would be mandatory, like measles or whooping cough.

The narcolepsy issue was one brand of one vaccine in the Netherlands in 2009, there have been no other occurrences since then, and the suspected source was removed. 

If anything, vaccine recalls are a sign of conscienscious and responsible behavior by the manufacturers or they would otherwise find a way to discard the complaints and keep selling the product.

Let's expand on the 4/40 strains of  that Guardasil is effective against:

There are actually over 60 strains of HPV that are known to affect humans. Two strains cause 70% of HPV-related cancers, two strains cause 90% of warts . Make sure that you understand that yes, there are other strains that cause cancer, but they are far less common, therefore, not worth the work and expense of isolating them.

The Guardasil vaccine is actually being found to be effective against more than just the four strains that it was developed to target.

Guardasil has not been found to cause a significant amount of side effects, and negligibly few serious side effects have been associated with this vax. Remember, more than 25 million girls have gotten this vax. Do the math and figure out how many millions of those girls would contract the two most common cancer-causing strains, and how many of those would develop cervical cancer, and compare it to the twenty or so cases of GB or encephalitis or narcolepsy or whatever.

Humanism, as a movement, is not religiously promoting BigPharma. Humanism is promoting knowledge, health and freedom to live a fulfilling life. Nothing in life is perfect, certainly nothing that operates for profit. But when you compare the quality of life in developed countries before and after the implementation of vaccines, we are far better off vaccinating than we were when we didn't. We can't return to those times.

A far better answer would be to get control of the profit-making faction that controls the development of vaccines and make sure that they are being manufactured and administered as safely and fairly as possible. 

There's a good segment on the Dr. Oz show about the HPV vaccine.  Dr. Diane Harper appears on that, among other people, and she is much more moderate than portrayed above.  Her reservations about the HPV vaccine have apparently been seized on and distorted by anti-vaxxers.  What she says in this show is more like "the HPV vaccine is a choice and maybe girls don't need it at 11, they can get it a few years later". 

They give other perspectives also, though.  Apparently HPV infection is very widespread, and even if you don't get cervical cancer from it, it can often cause other problems like genital warts that are very unpleasant to have.  The vaccine doesn't clear HPV infection from your body once you have it, so getting vaccinated early is recommended to prevent problems. 

The two vaccines were each tested on about 30,000 people, I think they said for 5 years in women and 2.5 years in men.  Any serious side effects happen in fewer than 1 in 10,000 people. 

HPV does cause cancer - cervical cancer in women, anal cancer in gay men.  There are about 12,000 new cases of cervical cancer every year in women, and the vaccine is estimated to prevent about 50-70% of those.  About 4.000 women die every year from cervical cancer, so it's quite a lethal cancer. 

The CDC website says

There are about 15000 HPV-associated cancers in the United States that may be prevented by vaccines each year in women, including cervical, anal, vaginal, vulvar and oropharyngeal cancers.

Even if the vaccine prevents only 50% of HPV-associated cancers, it would be preventing about 8000 new cases of cancer in the USA every year.

And the CDC says

About 7,000 HPV-associated cancers in the United States that may be prevented by vaccine each year in men, and oropharyngeal cancers are the most common.

According to the CDC, the HPV vaccine is recommended for gay men of any age. 

The HPV vaccine does not appear to raise the risk of Guillain-Barre syndrome according to a study by the Vaccine Safety Datalink. 

The CDC website says

There have been no patterns of death reports that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine.

So the claims of "official 44 deaths" from the vaccine are fabrications.

When millions of people are getting a vaccine, by chance some people will have seriously bad things - like dying - happen to them soon after the vaccine.  People then claim those deaths were caused by the vaccine.

But people who haven't recently been vaccinated, also have similar bad things happen.  Those deaths are not publicized.  So people get the impression the vaccine is causing deaths. 




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