So, gun ownership: The right to protect yourself from the government if need be, or for hunting and self defense only?

I take the Jeffersonian stance on this one, how about you?

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Skylar, have you ever looked at anarcho-capitalism or any possibility that doesn't involve the government?
Ryan Toll said:

"Skylar, have you ever looked at anarcho-capitalism or any possibility that doesn't involve the government?"

Could you please explain your question? I don't know how anarcho-capitalism would in any way be capable of regulating guns satisfactorily. I imagine the results would be similar to systems existent in places like Liberia, Darfur, etc. The person with the money makes the rules, and kills those who oppose them. No thanks.
I was trying to suggest that we should consider possibilities that don't involve the government since I find the government's initiation of the use of force to be abhorrent. Perhaps those who sell guns could voluntarily take measures to discriminate who they sell guns to. Perhaps those of us who favor such restrictions could put economic and social pressures on these sellers to encourage them to comply with what society as a whole deems to be reasonable precautions. Perhaps we can work to reduce crime and, by extension, reduce the number of criminals with guns. There are many possibilities and more will certainly present themselves if we look.

Could you please explain to me how the rich in places like Darfur and Liberia exert such control in your example? Does this control involve using the government or it's resources?
The presence of a government does not preclude the consideration or implementation of solutions to society's problems that don't include the government. Yes, I would like to live in a society that completely does without the violence of governments, but that is not the issue that I was putting forth. I was suggesting that, for this specific issue, we should broaden the scope of our discussion to include courses of action that don't involve the government. It seems to me that this would be a valuable avenue to pursue not only because of my feelings toward the government, but because of the significant mistrust of/opposition to government solutions that has been expressed by others in this thread.
"Could you please explain to me how the rich in places like Darfur and Liberia exert such control in your example? Does this control involve using the government or it's resources?"

I've replied in the Anarcho-Capitalism thread so as to avoid muddying the conversation here further.
The United States is aquiring (planned or not?) a permanent uneducated underclass who have no chance for an honest next meal. Their only means of living the American dream is to either sell you some (whatever) or robb you of your money or property. On this class, registration of weapons will do no good, it is possible with a viable school system and better control of noneducated immigrants, some minimum wage work would be available for this underclass.
"On this class, registration of weapons will do no good"

I agree that registration of weapons don't deter or prevent crime. It is feasible, though, for registration to allow law enforcement agencies to track the illegal or unethical sale of weapons to those who are barred from ownership.

"it is possible with a viable school system and better control of noneducated immigrants, some minimum wage work would be available for this underclass."

I agree that it is to the detriment of us all that equality in education is not available to the poor.

Regarding immigrants: do you believe that immigrants are taking minimum wage jobs from natural citizens? I believe the opportunity is there, for American born citizens to acquire minimum wage jobs if desired.

My opinion is that a lack of social support and cohesive family are larger contributory factors.
Skylar..."there are none so blind as those who will not see".
I am in the the construction supply transportation business, and I have watched hard working high school graduates replaced on construction jobs with wet backs who will work for 50% of the going rate. You as a taxpayer are subsidizing these cut rate workers by feeding the anchor babies and their mothers. These folks are on no known payroll, so no taxes are paid. I feel this is not good for our economic health.......
I'm just going to ignore the blatant racism here and rebut with this comment:

What you are seeing is a result of free market capitalism. Those who hire illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage do so in the name of profits. If you want to resolve this problem, abolish the minimum wage and allow market pressures to dictate competitive pay.
I can only assume that you are a trust funder and not exposed to the realities of the real world........
I agree with Don. Ad hominem comments will get you nowhere, nor do they have any place in a civilized discussion. If you truly posses some knowledge that Skylar does not or see some glaring flaw that he is blind to at the moment, then why not attempt to enlighten him?
I've got a right to own a rocket launcher or a minigun; the government or anyone else's opinion notwithstanding.

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