Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lauren on April 11, 2011 at 11:31am

I'm out to everyone and make no bones about what I think. (Though of course I avoid discussing religion at work, just as I avoid discussing politics.) I'm lucky in that my family, while still trying their hardest to save me, is overall a very loving bunch. I'm sure they believe the best way to save the apostate children is by showing them how kind and loving SDAs are, which I'm OK with.

 

Other than my family, I don't associate with my former Adventist community. This is mostly due to the fact that I don't go to church, but is compounded by my ex-husband having been in the Air Force which led to us being out of the country for about 5 years. Nothing like physical distance to help you forget about 'em!

Permalink Reply by John Kiernan on April 15, 2011 at 8:34am

I don't have much contact with people in the church. Family members in and out of the church know that I am an Atheist.

Permalink Reply by SuzyQ on April 28, 2011 at 8:30pm

I'm not technically out to anyone, although I'm fairly certain my husband has a good idea. He still kind of looks at me a bit funny when I talk about reading Dawkins, etc, and I'm not in the mood to press it - no point.

But given my job, I really can't be/shouldn't be out to anyone else. I appreciate the meager paycheck I get, and I truly have no idea what else I'd do at this point - like Diana mentioned in another thread, this is where the support system is, so here I stay.

My parents are both dead, and it's probably a good thing that I didn't actively start questioning until after my mother died - my dad would have truly been heartbroken, and I'd have never wanted to do that to him. And my mother would have had a difficult time accepting it - ironically, it was her desperate struggle with religion/god that was finally the last straw for me.

One of my uncles left the church decades ago, and it broke my grandmother's heart - she was another one of those who likely prayed daily for him, and she died thinking he was 'lost'. I can't imagine doing that to anyone - it's no way to live. A belief or lack thereof isn't worth that kind of heartache, so if agreeing to ignore that particular elephant in the room is able to keep the family peace, then I have no problem with it. It's not like everyone doesn't *really* know anyway, and if you're not being forced into anything that you *really* don't want to do, I see no big deal.

It's a bit difficult for me to remain silent, because I'm generally a very open person - I have no secrets. But when my livelihood (and a roof over my head and food in my kids' mouths) depends on the appearance of still believing...*shrug*. I'm not antagonistic toward the church in any way, I simply don't believe. So it's no big deal to me at the moment.

Permalink Reply by Kenneth James on May 3, 2011 at 9:19pm

Even though I have lived in the Adventist ghetto of College Place, WA (Walla Walla University) for the past 2 years, I have as little contact with them as possible.

 

Only two times have I set foot on the campus of my alma mater.  The first was a year ago when the Walla Walla Diversity Council held one of their events, hosted by WWU, which involved showing the National Geographic DVD on the Human Genome Project.  A presentation that illustrated human history for the last 60K years.  The WWU representative on the Diversity Council introduced the showing by conceding that people have different perspectives as to the reality of human history.

 

The second time was about a month ago.  Prof William Cronon , a leading expert in the history of environmentalism, was invited to give the WWU distinguished scholar lecture for 2011.  This appointment had been arranged for nearly 2 years ago.  But since the flair up in Wisconsin (Cronon is at the Univ of Wisconsin) over the gutting of collective bargaining rights, etc, and his editorial in the NYT eviscerating what the Republicans were doing to his state, and his being the nephew of a good progressive friend that I meet with at a Quaker fellowship, I decided to attend.

 

I left in disgust.  Such pandering to YEC/YLCists!  It was awful.  The prayer at the beginning, the prayer at the end.  I attend lectures all the time at the heathen college in Walla Walla (Whitman College), and that kind of nonsense NEVER happens.  I couldn't believe this guy held the beliefs he espoused.  Or else he was one disingenuous  liar.

 

It so happened that a week later, there was a showing of "Green Fire" at the Whitman Campus.  I had no idea what I was getting into with that presentation.  But it is documentary made by the United States Forest Service and the Aldo Leopold Foundation on the life of Aldo Leopold.  I had never heard of him, only to discover that he, Henry David Thoreau and John Muir make up the trinity.  Aldo Leopold was also on the faculty of the University of Wisconsin, and in the documentary, there were many testimonials about the work and legacy of Leopold.  Conspicuously absent, was any reference to William Cronon, who is supposedly America's best expert on the history of environmentalism.  I can now see why.

 

It reinforced for me how disingenuous this creationism nonsense is, and how the SDA education system buts a bag over their student's heads with respect to reality.

 

In my interaction with people on various social justice projects in and around Walla Walla, and when and if the subject comes up, I will let rip with my contempt for the SDA paradigm, how I am, mercifully, finally, liberated from that nonsense.  

 

Most people either completely agree with me, or know enough to keep their mouth shut.  I

 

In the process of my "coming out,"  I was initially quite sympathetic toward "sane" religion, and with the secular humanism of the U-U's and the total lack of doctrinal emphasis with the little Friends group (Quakers) at Whitman College.   I enjoy the Quakers because the hour of pure silence is refreshing, but the follow-up discussion  is all things politically progressive, and social justice oriented. 

 

But after reading Sam Harris in particular, I am realizing more and more the inherent evil that even mainstream religion is with respect to social order and justice.  I guess this is what "New Atheism" is all about. 

Permalink Reply by Ben Roth on July 15, 2011 at 10:59am

I think the only people who still don't know are the old folks from my parent's church. I hadn't thought about it until some others mentioned requesting they be taken off the books, but I'm pretty sure I'm still listed as a member there.

I was very reluctant to tell my parents at first, but I haven't been going to church with them since mid high school and they're not stupid. I came out to my mom earlier when I was still 'agnostic', and argued her all the way to admitting that she basically only believes because she wants to--not because of any worthy evidence. It made her cry and I'm not eager to repeat it. Since then and since I became fully atheist we've carefully avoided the subject and it was only within the last year or two that my grandmother asked me what I believe point blank during a family chat. I said "I'm pretty much a complete atheist at this point. I can't prove there isn't a god, but I don't think it's very likely." I may have thrown in a short Russel's teapot reference, but I changed the subject as soon as I could.

Coming out to my old Pathfinder leaders was the hardest emotionally because we actually a "the big talk" about it and I've been close to them and active with Pathfinders since I was 12. About 4 or 5 years ago I went on a "Leadership Retreat" at Big Lake and came out during some small groups mostly because we were sharing personal experiences and I can't lie. There's a lot of story there, but it'd be long.

My main concern more recently has been that I feel like I'm infringing on parental territory by not disclosing my atheism to parents who send their kids to Pathfinders. The club leaders have continued to assure me that I'm a good influence--and I generally agree--but I won't lie when kids ask me philosophic questions. I don't want drama with parents when their kid comes back from Camporee suddenly questioning everything he's ever been told. Because of that and wanting to find more time/worthwhile women to date, I've stopped helping completely during the last year or so.

My surviving grandparents and my mom are definitely still in the "oh you'll have a personal experience with God and come back to the church someday" camp of denial. I don't make any attempts to disabuse them of their 'hope'. Making them cry wouldn't be fun. My dad occasionally tells me that church is a good place to meet women, and says things like "there's a lot of people like you at churches, and many people go 'just' for the community". Sometimes I think he's a closet nonbeliever. I don't think he realizes how repulsive Christian girls are to me or how annoying church services are.

Coming out was a scary, gradual process. I changed my 'info' on Facebook before there were newsfeed alerts about such things. My close friends all knew in college because talking to them helped me organize my philosophic thoughts. I purposely distanced myself from people who were religious because I planned to never talk to any SDAs ever again after graduating. For the most part I've done that, although finding new friends without church or school has been more difficult than I anticipated.

I still have occasional fantasies about moving to some city where I know absolutely no one so that I can completely "start over" away from parents, Pathfinders and the SDA cultural bubble they bump into me with. But I don't want to leave the friends I do have, and I'm not sure moving would actually work/help.

Permalink Reply by Dustin Williams on July 16, 2011 at 9:38pm

I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only one who didn't believe what I was preaching when we helped with that Pathfinder rock climbing trip.

Permalink Reply by Ben Roth on July 26, 2011 at 7:32pm

This makes me laugh now because I've been calling bullshit in my head whenever I heard a pastor speak since well before that trip. Knowing that you already didn't believe then makes it a hilarious comedy of errors.
Sorry for thinking you were dumb when you were also just pretending, and well done on the acting skills. :)

Permalink Reply by Dustin Williams on July 26, 2011 at 8:04pm

I looked my sermon notes from that weekend a few months ago. What's interesting is the topic was faith, but I talked more about embracing and exploring your doubts with the premise being that if your faith is worth anything then the learning will make it stronger, otherwise you haven't lost anything.

Permalink Reply by Alexandra on November 24, 2012 at 4:19am

Man the church board at my old church would be on you like blood hounds the second there was a whiff of atheism from any pathfinder leader. They would oust you pronto.

Why do you continue to support that organisation? Pathfinders was such an awful, humiliating experience for me, I had no friends there and didn't enjoy a second of it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the main leader, who was also librarian at the adventist school, was deliberately picking on me and laughing at jokes made by 12 year olds at my expense, because looking beck on it all it was all highly irregular, like the way she always made a spectacle of me and how I was "sucking on my hair" CONSTANTLY in library class, when I WAS NOT sucking on my hair in any capacity whatsoever. Whatever, put it in the we will never know basket, she was probably mean to a couple of other kids too. Explains how none of my badges never showed up for pathfinders but everybody else's somehow did. For years on end.

Permalink Reply by Ben Roth on November 24, 2012 at 7:04am

Sorry to hear that. I've heard both extremes in Pathfinder experiences. My mom's experience as a kid was also kinda crap. Mine was mostly good (minus the attempted indoctrination) because I liked outdoor activities and we did things like rockclimbing and caving instead of just basket weaving or edible plants.

I'm pretty sure no one else in the involved churches knew I was an atheist. Most of them didn't know me at all, and probably assumed I was just from some other church. I only really kept going back to help after growing up because the Pathfinder leaders continually begged me to and I cared about the kids. I didn't see it as supporting the organization so much as undermining the bad parts while bringing good into it, and the kids are stuck in it regardless.

I'm still Facebook friends with some of the kids even though they're in college now. I love teaching kids how to do things and leading on adventures. I'm not doing it now because, in addition to taking care of my own needs, I felt I wasn't making as big an influence as I wanted and it doesn't seem to be the most effective or important way I could use my time. 

Permalink Reply by Shane Starr on September 16, 2011 at 1:32pm

Among my non adventist friends and coworkers I am out in the sense that they think I am agnostic. I suspect that my family suspects that I have left the church but they avoid the topic except for the occasional "we're praying for you" coment or "you need to pray about (insert situation here)" type of comments which I either ignore or just thank them for. My wife is an ex mormon and she still firmly believes in god but not the christian god. She follows paganism and thinks that I do too. She would not be receptive to belief in no god lol.

Permalink Reply by Dorris Journeay on October 1, 2011 at 3:16pm

I'm out to all my current friends and immediate family, though I think I'm still a member of the Montana church on paper.  I moved to a different state over 20 years ago but never formally resigned.  My mother knows I'm an atheist but refuses to believe it; she keeps sending me the Gleaner and other Adventist publications and sends donations to ADRA in my name.  She is convinced I'm just pissed at God and she worries obsessively over whether or not her children will be saved with her.  I've often asked her why she would want to spend an eternity with a God who would deprive her of her children (and this begs the question of how she knows that she herself is going to be saved).  Instead of spending her time enjoying the company of family, she just makes herself sick worrying about their imaginary future (eternal death or salvation!).  She is impervious to all logical arguments against the existence of God or the truth of the Bible (or EGW), and can't wrap her head around the fact that I can't be pissed at something I don't believe exists.  The rest of my family is fairly accepting and my sisters both lean agnostic if not totally atheist themselves.  

I'm more careful coming out in to those who could impact my employment.  I'm a new RN, and have unfortunately found that my profession is riddled with christian sentiment, probably because nursing started out as a service to the sick performed by nuns and christian women.  Unfortunately, in spite of striving toward a scientific, evidence-based mode of practice, we are still saddled with the effects of our religious roots.  Many nurses openly profess their christianity and I've been confronted by colleagues who come right out and ask if I'm a Christian upon first acquaintance.  I used to feel like a freak when I was an Adventist because of their more bizarre beliefs; now I'm a freak because I'm an atheist.  I've had to develop a pretty thick skin and a whole lot of tact!

 

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