I uploaded this today.

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I agree with parts, though not all of this vid.

Where I agree with her is that from the very beginning I have been put off by the old-boys-club attitude of the "new atheists". They are often misogynistic, no matter how loud they may shout they are not.

But unfortunately, I come from a different background than most atheists, I was never part of any brainwashing religion, my parents raised us in neutral, questioning, rational territory, without the need to ever be putting down others. What the "others" thought simply didn't matter that much.

It's also the reason why I entirely dislike using the word atheism, because of these old boys who are trying to define "atheism" to reflect their own western capitalistic WASP values (minus deities), but still the overall same set of values (except for homosexuality, as if homophobia was, the single,the one great topic that distinguishes "us" from "them", I beg to disagree, homophobia is only a grain of sand on the beach of the negative impacts of religion on our society).

I am atheist, but I do not practice atheism. I am atheist from the scientific standpoint, not from the Humanist standpoint. In the past couple of decades, secular Humanists have been taking over atheist organisations, and trying to make atheism=Humanism. But that is an error for atheists. It is simply trading one religion for another.

For the same reasons... I stopped watching Pat Condell, I think he hates women more than he hates religion.


But the other issue here is proselytising... I was never one to spread the atheist option, I used to shut up about it, because "we should be nice to all humans". Well I no longer feel that way. We've been OVERLY nice to humans for the past two millennia, it's why our numbers are so high today, we are obsessed with being nice to each other, and frankly, I think the time for being nice is a little past. So I do see it as important that atheists speak out about their ideas (not atheism, belch), our ideas are very diverse, and we are not all obsessed with imperialism and physics and conquering other planets for the resources we have depleted here.

I really wish I had known Madalyn Murray Ohair, from the videos I've watched I think she was a much better spokesperson for atheists than are the "horsemen". She focused on fixing things right here, rather than being all preachy to other nationalities and cultures.


So "atheism" on the internet, blah... I use atheist social forums to vent frustrations from the real world, and re-energise myself. I never waste a second arguing with religious people, or on forums strategising on that topic, but I like my debates with people in between, like agnostics (can't decide either way crowd) and Buddhists (who claim that since their gods are earthly they don't count), those are the ones I attempt to reach in the real world, because they are the ones who'll in turn reach the really religious, because they share some common ground, the search for divinity, which I do not. I don't understand religious folks, I never have and probably never will, I pity them, because they are usually not religious through their own choices but through brainwashing, so I can't really blame them as recipients of lies, but I do get on their asses when they propagate their lies.


The other parts of the video I disagree with are the terminology of light (us) and dark (them). That is old school enlightenment and Humanist lingo, again portraying "us" as better "enlightened" humans, whereas they (today and all humanity throughout history) are but animals, when we know full well that previous millennia of humans were not stupid, and not necessarily religious, they were simply living in a world that was more limited by the scope of human biology, whereas today's humans have harnessed technologies which means humans know no limits. Humans not knowing any limits (Humanism) is as bad a god complex as any religion that has come before, as long as atheists cling to such passe language to describe ourselves, we are not moving ahead, we are but perpetuating past patterns of human error.

Just so's you know: I used light/dark ironically. First, when TF said "black and white," since I'm very conscious of the implicit racism of this mindset, as well as the sexist history of woman as "evil." I also used that Derp photo "Are you a wizard?" as a character of how loud atheists define people who aren't very educated and are theistic (whom they lump in with ass hats like Comfort, who are just professional con men, not authentic people). I hope I made clear that the believers in my town are not bad folk, but could be dangerous to me, if they figure me out. And I sincerely believe it wouldn't hurt the planet if most of the human population got to, at least once, peer through the lenses of telescopes and microscopes. I'm far more concerned about those children in Africa, reviled as "witches" than I am about the Magic Sandwich Show, for sure! Thanks for a BEAUTIFUL comment!

I don't get it - can you please give some context to this You Tube? :)

The historical references to other YouTube videos is listed in the description bar, under the video.

Almost 8 years out of religion and I hear you.  I was angry for a while and sometimes I still am, but even I recently wrote about such behaviours.  What started my blog rant was said YouTube atheist, I won't name names, was being abusive to theists- cussing at them, calling them stupid, etc etc.  Now my mother is, admittedly delusional, but I do not appreciate abusive word towards her because she is a delusional Xian.  No one should call another stupid with "F" words etc.  That is right up there with the religious abuse many of us experienced, IMO. That's not why I don't believe though (it's all mythology). From my view, I could not help but think of my Fundie mother, Fundie aunt, and some friends who are still fundies and I could not stand the YouTube video, full of abusive words, was directed at them.  I'm a humanist, an atheist, but that is not the kind of atheism I want to present to others.  I prefer a more humanistic atheism (I know redundant, but abusive atheism is what I'm distinguishing).  To spew the F word, MF word, and other abusive words at theists, will not get them to listen, as you said.  Just because many of us received religious abuse while we were in it, does not mean we should return the abuse after we are out, but that's my rant and apparently part of yours too, Rogi

It takes great composure, discipline and emotional grounding to respond, rather than react, to theism. We say we're rational. Let's comport ourselves that way, then. Now, I do have some YouTube friends who use colorful language -- as slam poetry, hip hop, rap, etc. It's fun and funny and not meant to condemn anybody's grandma, you know? But listen to Thunderf00t's voice in this: he is literally HISSING at a Muslim woman! LOL Hokey SMOKES! He sure did a lot to prove her right, that we're all just a bunch of demonic evil, huh? LOL Oh, the testosterone levels!


I'm not talking about the hip-hop and alike stuff, he was literally screamed abusive stuff at theists, which I did not see any justification in doing so.  If I told you who he was, you might say, "Oh him."  Of course, I probably just narrowed it down.

I think this is the problem with labelling in general.  Just because I label myself an atheist, humanist, freethinker, naturalist etc - doesn't mean that I totally agree with everyone else who label's themselves the same.  In fact this is impossible, due to our totally different circumstances.  When I label myself, it's because I am attracted too or agree strongly with the fundamental premises of the group.  But there are so many interpretations.  In a way, it's more about joining with a group than being something - but joining with a group that I have shared values, beliefs or lifestyle.


Trying to stop people labelling themselves something that we also choose to label ourselves, because we don't agree just isn't possible and leads to ideas akin to ethnic cleansing and the like.  Atheist is a very broad term anyhow, and only means that we don't believe in God - it doesn't mean that we have moral values or a disire to respect and educate others.  If we want to subscribe to groups that are atheist and have moral values look to Humanism, Naturalism or Rationalism etc.


Atheism is as broad as saying I'm a consumer of orange juice - and then getting upset when someone else who drinks orange juice starts abusing someone.


OK, say your mother is a Fundie, would you allow another atheist to speak to her in an abusive manner?  I'm not talking about debating her views, but calling her names to her face?  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we need to draw the line somewhere.  Calling them stupid MFs is abusive and IMO not acceptable.

My mother WAS a fundie. She beat me into brain injuries and mutilated by genitals by trying to pull them off with her fingernails. All in the name of g*d, because I was "evil." I couldn't give a damn what happens to her. I'm not calling anybody names; it is not the point of my video and your concerns are off topic. They need to be addressed to the people with whom you're having problems, not me.

My relatives, a couple ministers, enabled my bio-father's sexual abuse with their religious views.  To this day my mother insists she had no choice due to God's will and alike.  sigh.  She'll never get it and will never admit she could have stopped it years sooner than she did.

I agree, speaking to anyone in an abusive manner is morally wrong.  Those people are caught in patterns that have been modelled to them, and have worked for them.  If their circumstances were different they would have been different.  If they had been modelled non-violent expression of feelings, needs and requests they would have more chance of having better moral values.  But it's not just modelling that provides us with our personality and character.  It's our genes and our bio-chemistry.


I read a story not long ago about a man who was of normal character, then over time he started to become violent, in the end he went out on a killing rampage.  It turned out that he had a large tumour that had been growing inside his head, pushing on the part of the brain that deals with emotion control and stimulated the aggression and violent behaviour.


There are atheists who are abusive, there are Catholics who are paedophiles, there are Judges, nurses, doctors, social workers who are abusive.  The world isn't perfect.  It doesn't imply that all people with these titles are also abusive or paedophiles.  I think they call it bad apples.


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