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That you've adopted Rush Limbaugh's feminazi language and ideas is shocking and has no place in a group dedicated to feminish. It's hate language, demonizing women who demand to be treated with respect. Dude, I don't know where you got the idea that there are a lot of women who are supremacists. That's a fantasy born of woman hating men as far as I can tell, just fear and projection. We women are an oppressed group just trying to support ourselves and stay safe from male violence. Sure we're angry, but we're not like guys. Have you ever heard of a female equivalent of 4chan or gamergate that harasses and threatens men online? That you can even imagine that is a symptom of having bought or internalized some patriarchial sexism. You can't actually put yourself into the shoes of a person minimized and oppressed for gender from birth, denied a voice, socialized to need the approval of the dominant gender and to distrust your own judgment. [Yeah, <sigh> I'm ranting]

Patriarchial culture is responsible for men and boys being forbidden express emotions other than anger, not feminism. Feminists promote full emotional development for men, for example in the discussions of The Man Box in this group.

While it's true that male rape isn't taken seriously, excepting by a minority, this too is an indirect consequence of macho culture. However the amount and severity of female on male sexual victimization, in comparison to male on female victimization, is trivial. Moreover, it's usually other men who rape men and boys. Your concerns come across as focused on male victimization. This isn't bad, just not balanced by an equal upset over female victimization. Sometimes, you seem to blame the victims, women, and avoid holding men responsible.

I applaud your stand against honor killing and other repressive laws and customs.

You've taken the first steps toward feminism and have much to learn. Welcome aboard.

Ok, Captain Red Lebanon, you deserve a more complete response. Let me give you my version of Feminism 101.

Patriarchy is bad for men because it's a hierarchy. Every guy has to impress or intimidate every other guy to achieve respect. Male self esteem, however, is hollow, fragile, insecure, because it's not authentic. By authentic I mean not fully honest with yourself, because only some feelings and desires are OK, and others like vulnerability, needing comfort, weaknesses, or hunger for deep personal connection must be hidden. Self esteem is always temporary, provisional, based on invidious comparison with others. Men can put themselves up by putting other men down, putting women and children down, or putting down despised minorities. But they're always inherently insecure. One threat, one disrespect can topple you almost instantly.

Feminism as I practice it is authentic. That means men are encouraged to accept all of their strengths and weaknesses, all of their feelings. We each respect ourselves based on our own judgment and the lives we live, the choices we make, our connections to others based on mutual respect and love. There's no need to compare yourself unfavorably or favorably to other men or to women. You are OK, just you. Nobody is perfect, and we learn from our mistakes. If you or I make a mistake, it's the act or behavior that was a problem. That didn't make you worthless. We do the best we can and cherish one another in our common cause.

This is why the very language of "feminazi" makes no sense. The person using that word can't imagine self respect based on equality. He can't imagine a cooperative culture, only competition. Men who use such words tend to look needy and insecure to us. Why else would they need to fear women who just want to respect themselves instead of being male property? Why else would they imagine such women were trying to conquer them?

When I realized I'd spent most of my life being inauthentic, looking for esteem from men instead of my own judgment, it was called feminist consciousness raising. Male feminists can go through a similar process, realizing how they've been trained from birth to prove themselves to other men, just to have self esteem, and that there's an escape from that insecurity. Authentic self esteem is stronger, more resilient, and more satisfying than constantly needing to prove yourself to every man around you. Once you have that, there's no need to put down women or anyone else. You are standing on your own feet, confident you know your worth.

Well put, Ruth!


I agree with you, but the cases of female on male rape are under-reported.

What is a better label for the extremists?

stupids! People who escape from oppression only to turn the tables and do a bit of oppression themselves, think with their gut.

Captain Red Lebanon, you correctly point out the inequalities suffered by both men and women when it comes to rape. I worked with raped men and their experience felt as painful to them as rape feels for women but in a subtly different way. For women, they seemed to experience rape as just one more assault on their minds and bodies. For men, especially those raped men who were bullies, they appeared to melt away into a "blob of snot," a term coined by a fellow inmate. I brought in male therapists to work with those men. 

As to the term "feminazi" yes, some women think and act like authoritarian dictators. I perceive them as part of a process that occurs when individuals and cultures live out of balance. Nature seems to favor survival of those who know how to think for themselves and are willing to take action that brings out anger in those, such as Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.

There is no reason women should be dependent, passive, subordinate, and acquiescent. Yes, women are vulnerable when they are pregnant or when they have children to raise; however, men who neglect or are unable to take care of and protect their families put their offspring at risk. Yes, men tend to be stronger and have more testosterone in their blood. In the animal kingdom, the male of the species usually thinks and acts in independent, active, and dominant ways, while women tend to be dependent, passive, subordinate, and acquiescent.

Codes of Gender

- Unlike biological sex, there is nothing natural about gender identity – it is part of a socializing process.

- SEX refers to our different biological characteristics at birth, what makes us male or female.
- GENDER refers to the cultural definitions given to these physical, biological differences, characteristics that the culture defines as masculine or feminine.
- These gender categories are presented as mutually exclusive by the culture.
- The two-sex, two-gender system is a socially created one, and is culturally
dependent; it consists of certain agreed-upon codes; and each of us learns how
to display these “codes”.
- This binary distinction downplays the things that males and females have in
common, while at the same time downplaying all the ways that males are
different from other males, and females are different from other females.
- GENDER DISPLAY is the process whereby we perform the roles expected of us by social convention.
- CODE is a shorthand language that everyone shares; a set of rules, a code of behavior.

Codes of Gender, Study Guide



Life’s challenges required that women give up their dependent role as a woman, wife, and female adult in order to confront the many challenges they face. Mothers could no longer be passive, acquiescent, and subordinate. They had to forego their role as a woman as defined by family, religion, and community if they wanted to be healthy.

Giving up those roles meant they had to take on the role of a fully functioning adult, gender unspecified. Becoming independent, active, interdependent, and in control of  their lives meant throwing off the bindings of their minds and beginning to think with a critical mind.

“Is this healthy?” “Am I meeting the needs of my children?” “Will I be able to function without the support of my family and religion and community?” “Can I function as a mentally healthy, mature, interdependent woman and live in community?”

~ A Splendid Heresy 

Joan Denoo

As to your question: "What is a better label for the extremists?" my answer is 

An independent, active, interdependent, and in control of her life woman is a mentally healthy, mature, adult woman.

Powerfully and clearly stated, Ruth.  An inspiration to read. 




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