My poor heart shrivels at this.

...why do women do this? why would women do this?

I guess I don't understand, because I've always been a loudmouth who curses too much and has really strong opinions and knows too much.

When my mom gave me the advice of "honey, to get men you have to act stupid and helpless sometime, men like that." I scoffed, and never have purposefully acted useless. I carry the heavy stuff, I do everything myself, I have no problem voicing my opinions, and it attracts the kinds of guys I really like.

...I guess she took this sort of advice to heart?

Also is it linked to patriarchy, perhaps?

I'm also reminded of the cults where they refuse to teach young girls how to read or do basic math.

Views: 900

Replies to This Discussion

That's sick! I cannot even finish reading it. Depressing!

I could barely finish reading that comment thread. Not that far off from the dystopia of The Handmaid's Tale where the Republic of Gilead overthrew the previous US government, and where girls and women are forbidden to read.

Yeah, my mom never told me that, and I don't do the heavy lifting because I have balance issues, but I come with my own set of power tools and my husband thinks that's hot.  Also going to give my daughter a stern talking to if she ever sells herself short like that.  It does scare me that ppl like this are allowed to vote tho.

I'm reminded of some talking Barbie doll.

"Math is hard."

"I don't know.  I'm just a girl."

That second one is paraphrased, but that was the general idea.  Lots of women have internalized that sort of thing.

Lots of women have internalized that sort of thing.


I would cry if I weren't laughing so hard.  But, yeah, it happens.  There are women who, especially if they're pretty, find it easier to get their self-validation through male approval.  It's pandering to insecure men's needs to be smarter/stronger than women. 

Ugh.  I'm torn between feeling pity and anger for her.  I don't know how to explain or translate this well, but there's a term for it in Hokkien, sainai.  As dating advice, someone might say, "You should sainai your boyfriend."  Basically, act weak/childish/super-fake-cutesy/helpless/selfish/whiny/brainless in order to boost the loser boyfriend's self-esteem, letting him think he's such a strong, brave, resourceful person!  Oh, whatever would I do without you?  I would just run and scream "kyaa!" at the sight of a teeny little Pomeranian because dogs are scary!  There are cultures where this is accepted/normal/expected behavior for young women, and it pisses me off every time I see it.  These are people in their twenties, stomping their feet and pouting and complaining about how politics is so boring and thinking is so hard and it would be so awesome to be someone's trophy wife.  It's freakin' gross.

Only the original post seems to be a woman. I took the second post to be irony. The rest sound to me like insecure macho guys who respond positively to women who put themselves and other women down.

Why would a woman have such an opinion - she's internalized a lifetime of putdowns from male authority figures and from other women who've accepted the typical Stockholm Syndrome position in Dominator Culture. Women, or any marginalized group, can be turned against themselves. The capacity for such self betrayal is human nature, as is the capacity to find yourself again.

We still have a long way to go.

Cherish your authenticity. Keep that anger which makes you strong and independent, Jonel.

Here's a great blog on not confusing ethical behavior with politeness.

The Revolution Will Not Be Polite: The Issue of Nice versus Good

Social justice is about destroying systematic marginalisation and privilege. Wishing to live in a more just, more equal world is simply not the same thing as wishing to live in a “nicer” world. I am not suggesting niceness is bad or that we should not behave in a nice way towards others if we want to! I also do not equate niceness with cooperation or collaboration with others. Here’s all I am saying: the conflation of ethical or just conduct (goodness), and polite conduct (niceness) is a big problem.

Plenty of oppressive bullshit goes down under the guise of nice.

... people who intend to harm others often display niceness towards them in order to make them feel safe and let their guard down. This trick only works because we have been taught that niceness indicates goodness. What is more, according to De Becker, women have been socially conditioned to feel indebted to men who are “nice” to them, which is often exploited by abusers. If this doesn’t seem obvious to you, I suggest you pick up the book – it talks a lot about how socialisation of men and women makes it easier for men to abuse women.

An even bigger issue is that if people think social justice is about niceness, it means they have fundamentally misunderstood privilege. Privilege does not mean you live in a world where people are nice to you and never insult you. It means you live in a world in which you, and people like you, are given systematic advantages over other people. Being marginalised does not mean people are always nasty to you, it means you live in a world in which many aspects of the cultural, social and economic systems are stacked against people like you.

Cultural narratives are part of what builds and reinforces social roles, and those determine what opportunities a person has – and the rights they can actually exercise, even if they have them in the law. If you don’t believe me and don’t want to accept this idea, you will now google “stereotype threat”, you will read Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, you will watch this speech by Esther Duflo on women and development (which talks about stereotypes and outcomes)...

The conflation of nice and good also creates an avenue of subtle control over marginalised people. After all, what is seen as “nice” is cultural and often even class-dependent, and therefore the “manners” that matter get to be defined by the dominant ethnic group and class. For example, the “tone” argument, the favourite derailing tactic of bigots everywhere, is quite clearly a demand that the oppressor be treated “nicely” at all times by the oppressed – and they get to define what “nice” treatment is. This works because the primacy of nice in our culture creates a useful tool – to control people and to delegitimise their anger. [emphasis mine]

Let the misbehaving BEGIN!

I'm angry too, Jonel. Check out my reply to a discussion about Atheism+.

It's about backlash against a feminist response to the sexism of some Atheist men.




Update Your Membership :



Nexus on Social Media:

© 2019   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: The Nexus Group.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service