The Qura'an
-Sura 4 verse 34:
"الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ ۚ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَاللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرً"
Which means in English:
Men have authority over women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.


-Sura 4 Verse 11:
يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّهُ فِي أَوْلادِكُمْ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الأُنثَيَيْنِ فَإِن كُنَّ نِسَاء فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ وَلأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِن كَانَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ فَإِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلَدٌ وَوَرِثَهُ أَبَوَاهُ فَلأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُ إِخْوَةٌ فَلأُمِّهِ السُّدُسُ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِي بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ آبَاؤُكُمْ وَأَبْنَاؤُكُمْ لاَ تَدْرُونَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ لَكُمْ نَفْعًا فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا
Which translates to:
And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing.
In Summary: A woman receives half the inheritance of her brother. 1 man = 2 women

-Sura 33:59:
 يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَٰجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَٰبِيبِهِنَّ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰٓ أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ ۗ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا
English Translation:
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.


                                                             Sahih Bukhari:


6:301

حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ أَبِي مَرْيَمَ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي زَيْدٌ ـ هُوَ ابْنُ أَسْلَمَ ـ عَنْ عِيَاضِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ، قَالَ خَرَجَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي أَضْحًى ـ أَوْ فِطْرٍ ـ إِلَى الْمُصَلَّى، فَمَرَّ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ يَا مَعْشَرَ النِّسَاءِ تَصَدَّقْنَ، فَإِنِّي أُرِيتُكُنَّ أَكْثَرَ أَهْلِ النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقُلْنَ وَبِمَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ قَالَ ‏"‏ تُكْثِرْنَ اللَّعْنَ، وَتَكْفُرْنَ الْعَشِيرَ، مَا رَأَيْتُ مِنْ نَاقِصَاتِ عَقْلٍ وَدِينٍ أَذْهَبَ لِلُبِّ الرَّجُلِ الْحَازِمِ مِنْ إِحْدَاكُنَّ ‏"‏‏.‏ قُلْنَ وَمَا نُقْصَانُ دِينِنَا وَعَقْلِنَا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَلَيْسَ شَهَادَةُ الْمَرْأَةِ مِثْلَ نِصْفِ شَهَادَةِ الرَّجُلِ ‏"‏‏.‏ قُلْنَ بَلَى‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ فَذَلِكَ مِنْ نُقْصَانِ عَقْلِهَا، أَلَيْسَ إِذَا حَاضَتْ لَمْ تُصَلِّ وَلَمْ تَصُمْ ‏"‏‏.‏ قُلْنَ بَلَى‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ فَذَلِكَ مِنْ نُقْصَانِ دِينِهَا ‏" 

English Translation:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6, and molested her at 9.
I am an Arab ex-Muslim atheist, and women in Islamic culture are considered inferior.
And Islamic Feminism is an oxymoron.

Views: 109

Replies to This Discussion

"Islamic Feminism is an oxymoron."  NO KIDDING!!!

The women I have seen in the atheist movement who have come out of Islam – women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Miriam Namazie, Taslima Nasrin and others like them – rather than being empowered by their former religion have empowered themselves DESPITE it.  These are strong individuals who have ignored the imperative: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain," and seen that the Wizard of IS is nothing more than a humbug.  Stipulated that these women pay a considerable price for their outspoken positions in terms of the security they need to surround themselves with in the face of reaction from frightened Muslim males, but that doesn't change the admirable qualities they exude.

These women and the others they inspire deserve our unremitting support.

I am sick and tired of feminists claiming that Islam is a pro-feminist ideology

Who says that, anyway?  Sure, the Old Testament of the Christian Bible (ie. Jewish scriptures) doesn't do women a whole lot of favors either, relative to modern standards, but who actually thinks that Islam is an improvement?

It can't be a very large percentage of people, at least.  I've heard insane things of the sort, claiming the moral superiority of Islam on matters about which it actually does a lot worse than almost all flavors of Christianity.

It's possible for people to get all sorts of weird concepts about things with which they aren't familiar.  I've heard American new-agers talk about Islam and Hinduism as these benevolent religions that are free of the abuses of the Christian west.  It's insane.

Which groups are you thinking of which point to Islam as being feminist?

Christ.  When I finished writing this, I did a few Google searches on the subject.  This appeared near the top of the list most prominently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabby-aossey/muslims-are-the-true-fem...

I swear, HuffPo is the Fox News of the left.  They occasionally have good articles about politics, but I prefer to get that information from more reliable news sources.  I prefer not to go to a site that holds up Deepak Chopra as something credible.  Hell, even Fox News has plenty of objective, good news-reporting, but I'd rather not wade through their bullshit to find it, either.

Buzzfeed, Huffignton post , SJWs , and regressive leftists

Muhammad was a feminist - Huffington Post

Heh, Christ.

In his Farewell Sermon delivered shortly before he died in 632, Muhammad said to the men, “You have certain rights over women but they have certain rights over you.”

That's ... umm ... not feminism.  That's a strict declaration of gender roles.  Wow.

And you can only get that close to something approaching feminism by picking and choosing like crazy.  I've followed along with a couple of podcasts which have read the Koran, sura by sura.  You really need to ignore a hell of a lot, in order to come away with that sort of interpretation.

That was a freaking rough article to wade through.  Thanks.

Who, in the SJW camp, would actually point to Islam as a positive influence?  I've never seen anyone do anything of the sort.  That's insane.

Clearly they're out there, since I was so easily able to turn one up with a Google search, but does anyone pay attention to those idiots?

Like tumblrinas, Hillary supporters, communists, college kids

I've never heard a Hillary supporter say anything of the sort.  I should know; I was one, after the primaries were over.  I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general election.

I don't think that I've heard "communists" saying anything as a group, in a long time.  "College kids" is more than a bit of an over-generalization too, man.  Most college kids I know don't say much of anything either for or against Islam, and the feminists amongst them are pretty anti-Islam, on the rare occasion that they think about it in regards to feminism.

Usually, here in the US, we're more worried about the Christian right's influence on feminism.  Unlike Muslims, the Christian right can actually have an effect.  Islam just isn't a source to turn to for a better perspective.

The feminists of the women's march like Linda Sarsour

In other words, you're talking about a handful of nuts who aren't representative of the Tumblr community, Hillary supporters, communists, or college kids.

So, there are a few progressive Muslims who try to twist and spin their religious nonsense into something that it isn't.  I've seen plenty of Christians try to do the same thing with their religious nonsense.  Hell, do a Google search for "Jesus was the first feminist," if you want to see a mess of insanity by Christians who are trying to do a similar thing to what you're objecting to here.

People who believe in two utterly incompatible things often engage in these sorts of mental contortions.  Or, as is the case with many of these Mohammad-was-a-feminist and Jesus-was-a-feminist nuts, they aren't actually feminists ... or at least shouldn't be recognized as such within a modern context.  I suspect that they want to combat some of the worst abuses of their religious culture, but they usually stop well short of actual sexual-equality.

Or, some of these groups are Trojan horses, trying to destroy the meaning of one of their two claimed causes.  I've seen anti-abortion groups claim that real feminists are all about accepting responsibility and giving birth to unwanted children, because real women are tough like that.  So, according to them, real feminists should oppose women's reproductive rights and try to ban birth control, too, because birth control prevents women from taking responsibility for results of their sexual activity.  It's completely fucking insane.

I think you're overestimating how seriously anyone takes the people to whom you're objecting.  Most atheists most aggressively attack the religion from which they escaped, and I suspect you're doing the same.  It annoys me a hell of a lot, when I hear people make excuses for the Catholic church, since I was raised (but never actually was) Catholic.

Although, I hear plenty of other atheists who were never associated with Catholicism who also attack the church aggressively, since it's the single most powerful religious entity in the world and does a hell of a lot of social.  But I suspect that I have a stronger, more visceral hatred of the Catholic church than most.

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