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Discussion Forum


Started by Idaho Spud. Last reply by Idaho Spud 12 hours ago. 20 Replies

Exploding Pyrex

Started by Idaho Spud. Last reply by Idaho Spud Jul 4. 9 Replies

Perverse Luxury Beef

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Dale (ForestWind) Jun 17. 2 Replies

Seafood will be far less nutritious

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner May 29. 0 Replies

Precut bagged salad fosters Salmonella

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by The Flying Atheist May 18. 9 Replies

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Comment by Daniel W on December 12, 2016 at 10:39am

Continuing because my character count was too high for one post -

So actually, more were harmed than helped, plus the cost.  Of course, those harms are less sever than actually having a terrible outcome like a heart attack or stroke.

That's a very big deal nationally, because you can prevent 1000s of heart attacks and strokes by giving a statin. So it's a population health issue more than an individual health issue.  I'm not a big fan of population health, because it turns us all into a mindless number with no say, and no individual proclivities, opportunities, goals, and needs.   Health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies become even more rich of course, pushing these drugs on virtually everyone. 

But that does not take into account real, personal, livestyle efforts, and those are no longer taught in medical school and no longer promoted because they say people won't do it anyway.  My health plan actually rated each primary care doctor on what percentage of their patients were actually taking statins, because my health plan owns its pharmacy, so tracks all of the prescription fills for every patient.  Big brother.  That is among countless other ratings as well.  They pressured doctors to make more patients take them, and had big systems in place to have the managers, nurses, and pharmacists do the same.

Looking at that link another way,

"It takes 5 years of daily statin therapy to achieve a 1.6% chance of avoiding a heart attack, and a 0.37% chance of avoiding a stroke. Most disappointing, statins seem unable to prevent death in this group."

This is for primary prevention - preventing a heart attack or stroke before it happens.  For secondary prevention - preventing a second heart attack or stroke, it's a different situation.

My case is also individual, because I take a rare, powerful and life changing medication to treat a rare cancer.  The combination of bad effects is simply unknown, as is the benefit and the risk/benefit profile. 

By the way, when I retired, they were no longer using just actual cholesterol numbers to make a decision about statin drugs.  The decision was made based on age, weight, smoking, blood pressure, and presence of diabetes.  Checking cholesterol level was more a way to convince people to take statins.

Comment by Daniel W on December 12, 2016 at 10:38am

A agree with Chris about the genetic aspect of cholesterol.  My mother's was in the 500s, my dad's in the low 100s.  They walked together every day.  They ate the same diet, mostly ovolacto vegetarian, no egg yolk, no meet, only skim milk, no cheese. 

The expert team on heart disease has set the bar such that virtually everyone needs to be on a cholesterol pill.  Mine is under 100, I get daily exercise, I'm vegetarian, but my doctor suggested I start a cholesterol pill because I take a blood pressure pill - BP currently about 120/70 which is excellent control.  I said no. 

Here is a link regarding number needed to treat, NNT.  That means, how many people do you need to treat, to prevent one bad outcome such as heart attack or stroke.   For benefits, by

giving cholesterol medication,

  • None were helped (life saved)
  • 1 in 60 were helped (preventing heart attack)
  • 1 in 268 were helped (preventing stroke)

For number needed to harm

  • 1 in 50 were harmed (develop diabetes*)
  • 1 in 10 were harmed (muscle damage)
Comment by Plinius on December 12, 2016 at 8:28am

High cholesterol can be programmed in the genes. You can also use pomegranates to lower cholesterol. 

Comment by Michael Penn on December 12, 2016 at 7:49am

Randall, I had similar readings and they had a hissy over my cholesterol and wanted to put me on Crestor. My cost on this $250 medication is $47 but I refused because I can switch to the VA and get it for $15. Don't try and convince me I'm getting a "bargain."

I'm also 248 lbs. and know fully that the old standard on cholesterol was 250 for many years. Then the drug "money makers" stepped in. You can lower it with flax seed oil, fish oil, and red yeast rice.

Comment by Randall Smith on December 12, 2016 at 7:32am

My blood test results are in (sent to me). Mixture of good and bad. Cholesterol at 265, but HDL is 80. So the ratio is well within the range of "okay". PSA (prostate) is very low--good news.

I just don't understand why my cholesterol number is so high. I exercise, eat right, not overweight, etc. "They" say don't be too concerned unless it's over 300. And it's the same as last year. We'll see what the Dr. says in 3 days.

Comment by Daniel W on December 11, 2016 at 7:30pm

Im too paranoid to can foods.  I did make freezer jam, which is pretty low risk since it's frozen

Comment by Joan Denoo on December 11, 2016 at 5:58pm

Spud, it works! Thanks!

 Mac computer, I get the degree symbol by holding down both the "Alt" and "Shift" keys, then pressing the "8" key. 

I can get a smaller degree symbol by holding down the "Alt" key, then pressing the "K" key.



I had to pay attention to getting the "Alt" key in order to get the degree sign.  

Comment by Joan Denoo on December 11, 2016 at 5:35pm

Food poisoning presents a formidable enemy to all cooks, especially home canned things. We cooked the life out of home canned beans until they flopped over when someone picked one up with a fork of fingers. It was hard for me to just heat them to a hard boil and at the last minute before serving. Old habits die hard. 

Home Canning and Botulism

Comment by Randall Smith on December 11, 2016 at 7:37am

When I took Amtrak out west a year ago Oct., I ate lunch at a Chipotles. A week later, the same restaurant was the site of a food poisoning outbreak that made national news. Whew! I don't blame you, Spud, for being concerned.

Comment by Idaho Spud on December 9, 2016 at 2:29pm

I almost never eat at a restaurant or fast-food place anymore, mainly due to the price, plus I'm a little concerned about food poisoning. 

Pizza Hut pizza is my favorite also, although one of them gave me a mediocre tasting pizza the last time I went there.  Many years ago, when I lived in the bay area, I found a pizza place in San Francisco that had the best tasting pizza I've ever eaten, but can't remember the name of it.


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