LGBTQI atheists, nontheists, and friends


LGBTQI atheists, nontheists, and friends

Nontheist lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people & friends.

Location: International
Members: 623
Latest Activity: Nov 18

Welcome to Gay / LGBTQI Atheists & friends!

The I in LGBTI

Discussion Forum

Gender Identity and Sustainability

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Oct 26. 0 Replies

Epigenetics and sexual orientation

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Oct 8. 0 Replies

Gaydar doesn't exist and it's bad?

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Daniel W Sep 13. 2 Replies

Homophobia as pathology

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner Sep 11. 0 Replies

The Trans Issue

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Denise Deiloh Sep 3. 4 Replies

Does Obama's gay advocacy exclude trans

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jun 27. 5 Replies

Betty Bowers on PRIDE

Started by Loren Miller. Last reply by Daniel W Jun 5. 1 Reply

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Comment by James M. Martin on July 12, 2014 at 7:21pm

I like Ruth's photos, too, and Sentient, no apologies are needed for your good rundown on how the alphabet soup evolved. Since all kinds of people are using the four-letter version on TV nowadays, it's become kind of "official." And who am I to say?

Comment by The Flying Atheist on July 12, 2014 at 5:16pm

Ruth, I love those three photos!


Regarding the whole "alphabet soup" issue.  If we are to be a community that represents and includes all persons whose sexual and/or gender identity is "different" than the mainstream, then I'm fine with having as many letters as needed.  It is up to each of us to individually identify ourselves in a manner which is personally comfortable.  Sexual orientation and identity can be very fluid, so the inclusion of many identifying terms is necessary.     

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on July 12, 2014 at 3:41pm

Comment by Daniel W on July 12, 2014 at 1:58pm

Actually, the LGBTQI...  collection comes out of many years of activism, debate, political correctness and incorrectness, and idealism.  If all of the pixels and bits and bytes and paper that went into the discussion, could be collected together and made into something, it would be very impressive.

wikipedia version of that history.

Back when the dinosaurs were lumbering across the Midwestern swamps - yet to be renamed "wetlands" - and I was a struggling gay young man, I joined gay rights groups whose purpose was to provide community, refuge, and debate issues of the day.  At the time, we referred to the issue as "gay", which we all thought was inclusive of anyone who wasn't "straight" in the supposed binary of sexuality.  Then, in this entirely subjective history, a few women joined the group, and it was changed to "Gay and Lesbian".  But that's not fair, so it was changed to "Lesbian and Gay".  Much time was spent then with complaints about how bad men are, and how gay men were no better than straight men.  These discussions managed to drive a lot of people away, and then there grew the realization that  oppression has always been there for many flavors of gender expression, so it was expanded to LGBT although some guys thought GLBT was more appropriate since they thought they existed first, not remembering Sappho.

Then there was the academic movement of the 90s and beyond, who felt that "Questioning" and "Queer" should be added, which alienated some of the veterans who experienced much persecution involving the word "queer" but which many of the younger, and older, members of the movement said, get over it you crusty old farts - of which I am proud to be, but agism isn't part of the paradigm.

I find it pretty appalling that intersex folks are often forgotten in all of this.  If anyone has been persecuted for their involuntary gender /sexual nonconformity, it's intersex people.  Often, mutilated shortly after birth, and then repeatedly for life.  Exactly which bathroom is an intersex person expected to use?

Oh well, enough of my rant.  With enough letters in an acronym, we can just call it "Anybody but Straight Homophobes", or "ASH".

I think all people should be able to choose how they label themselves, and others should respect that.  There may be limits to that, and the debate will never end.  Never.  Not ever.

Having much of my life been affected by persecution and discrimination, I don't care what labels people use.

Comment by James M. Martin on July 11, 2014 at 8:19am

@Jim G. I suspect the media made up the alphabet thing and that someone added the letter Q because they knew some of us do not identify completely with the other letters. Some of us initially disliked appropriation of the word "gay" (happy). I find myself increasingly quoting Emory, the most effeminate character in Mart Crowley's Boys in the Band who got some of the funniest lines. At one point, Emory says, "Show me a happy homosexual and I'll show you a corpse," which in the 60s was a fairly accurate statement. Originally, queer meant nothing more than "different." That's why I like it. Yes, it is an epithet in the mouths of homophobes, but that doesn't bother me. Look at the way African-Americans re-appropriated "nigger" in the 1960s and later. If I were African-American, I think I would like the N word, too. But I think I see the point made by those who want the word banned. I just do not like the obsessive attempts to be politically correct. Not sure what you mean by "the whole community thing."

Comment by Jim Greenamyer on July 11, 2014 at 4:42am
So, why do we use the alphabet soup to begin with? And what exactly is meant by "queer"? I guess I'm just getting tired of the whole "community" thing.
Comment by James M. Martin on July 10, 2014 at 6:00pm

Don't say "LGBT" when you "LGBT." It ought to be LGBTQ. Some of us don't like alphabet soup to begin with, and the four letter version is too confining.

Comment by Fallen Angel on July 10, 2014 at 5:55pm

Comment by Ruth Anthony-Gardner on July 9, 2014 at 10:21pm

Comment by The Flying Atheist on July 1, 2014 at 11:47pm

Hey, BJ.  Welcome, and hello to you as well.  Glad you could join us. 


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