Godless in the garden


Godless in the garden

Welcome to gardeners, growers of veggies, fruits, flowers, and trees, backyard hen enthusiasts, worm farmers, & composters!

Location: Planet Earth
Members: 179
Latest Activity: 19 hours ago

Welcome to Eden!

If you like to dig in the dirt, grow flowers, putter around the yard, dig in the kitchen garden, raise backyard hens, or just like daydreaming about the garden, this is the place.

Many topics have been discussed in the archive.  Revive a topic by adding your 2¢ or start a new topic.

Everyone likes photos of the garden, so if you like to share photos of your prize dahlia, your favorite hen, or your first tomato, go right ahead!

Discussion Forum

How to Store Nuts

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Idaho Spud on Thursday. 3 Replies

Himalayan rhododendrons blooming 3 months early

Started by Ruth Anthony-Gardner. Last reply by Joan Denoo Jan 22. 4 Replies

Comment Wall


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Comment by Randall Smith on December 27, 2014 at 7:35am

Daniel speaks for me, too, when he says "I don't know diddly squat" (a midwestern phrase?). That's why I stay out of the permaculture, hugalkultur, Texas soil, etc., discussions. Is ignorance bliss?

1491 was a very good book, on par with A World Without Us (Weinstein).

Comment by Joan Denoo on December 26, 2014 at 10:17pm

I Googled Permaculture, Amazon Rain Forest, renewal. Here is one site, Permaculture: Pioneering Amazon Rainforest Regeneration. I found the video at 

Comment by Daniel W on December 26, 2014 at 10:00pm

Barbara, I find out every day how I don't know diddly squat.  We are all on a learning road, which starts way back when, and we don't know where it will go.

1491 by Charles Mann is a great read.  I've read it 2 or 3 times.  It kind of blows away the idea that the Americas were an unpopulated virgin continent, in a state of pristine wildness.  Certainly, we have fully transformed the continents into something else entirely, and much not for the better.I won't do a detailed argument about the linked article.  I have issues with a lot of the arguments, especially the truism that nonnative=bad.  Although, I think WE are the most destructive non-native on the continent.

Comment by Barbara Livingston on December 26, 2014 at 10:19am

In the garden, I think earthworms really are our friends.

I agree. It seems the more I learn about proper techniques of tending my little space, the more I realize how much I don't know.  The book you refer to, 1491, is definitely new reading material for me. 

Comment by Daniel W on December 26, 2014 at 8:50am
I think that earthworm genie is out if the bottle. Most of the preColumbian US was not the pristine untouched forest we are taught - per the book 1491 the continent was managed and farmed, in a different way. some criticsl forest species are gone forever - chestnuts snd elms. there are diseases and insects that were not there before. There are new tree snd plant species. The rain is more acidic,probably so is the soil, the rain oatterns have changed, and the climate is changing. I dont think we can go back. Only forward. i hope the new species may well be better adapted than what was there before.

In the garden, I think earthworms really are our friends.
Comment by Barbara Livingston on December 26, 2014 at 6:22am

GC, Thanks for link. Not sure why I can't seem to post ones that actually work. 

Comment by Grinning Cat on December 25, 2014 at 11:51pm

A working link to "The Trouble With Worms":


("... Pennsylvania's forests evolved without earthworms .... The key to health in the Keystone state's forests resides in a fungal-based soil that slowly decomposes its organic matter.... Earthworms are notorious disturbers of soil. Their disturbance creates healthy conditions for farms and gardens, but unhealthy conditions for forests....")

Comment by Barbara Livingston on December 25, 2014 at 10:33pm

Just when we think we are doing good ... I sat at a dinner table with an "expert on all things" this evening and after discussing 'black holes' I mentioned permaculture and we wound up discussing worms.  He informed me that not all worms are good and that in Pennsylvania and areas of the northeast they are studying ways to combat them.  Yep, earthworms.  I found it hard to believe and came home and Googled it ... my results:


This is what the guy was talking about.  Any comments?  Joan, since we are the ones raising worms I wondered what you make of it?

Comment by Daniel W on December 25, 2014 at 2:20pm
Barbara Im glad your vacuum mulcher is working. It sounds like a great tool!
Comment by Daniel W on December 25, 2014 at 2:19pm
Barbara, I dont know the answer to your question. Adding to the complicated picture - the Amazon is rapidly being converted to crops and grasslands. Maybe grasslands would hold the soil better, but cropland?

I also dont know, how long can Africa continue to give up its soil? It cant be endless. If the Sahara became green, and the Amazon lost soil... does it equal out?

I know all I can take care of is my little plot of land. Which is improving, year by year. Much of the additive is brought in - that is not permaculture, but still it is better for yard waste compost to go to my soil, than for yard waste to burn or go to landfill. As my trees grow larger, I hope they give lots of leaves for mulch, too.

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