Godless in the garden


Godless in the garden

Welcome to gardeners, growers of veggies, fruits, flowers, and trees, backyard hen enthusiasts, worm farmers, & composters!

Location: Planet Earth
Members: 179
Latest Activity: 5 hours ago

Welcome to Eden!

If you like to dig in the dirt, grow flowers, putter around the yard, dig in the kitchen garden, raise backyard hens, or just like daydreaming about the garden, this is the place.

Many topics have been discussed in the archive.  Revive a topic by adding your 2¢ or start a new topic.

Everyone likes photos of the garden, so if you like to share photos of your prize dahlia, your favorite hen, or your first tomato, go right ahead!

Discussion Forum

Sequester water

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by Daniel W 14 hours ago. 1 Reply

Soils need nourishment to create healthy plants

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by k.h. ky on Tuesday. 1 Reply

Tomato Growing Topics & Tips

Started by Joan Denoo. Last reply by k.h. ky on Tuesday. 3 Replies

Comment Wall


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Comment by k.h. ky on May 13, 2017 at 11:32pm
Joan I only have one four year old Boston terrier now. The best thing she has learned is to stay out of the flower beds :) She's always with me and gives a very soft 'woof' if something is around that shouldn't be. If people show up unexpectedly she acts like a big dog barking and growling. She sounds like a big dog too. But with stray snakes, turtles, racoons, etc she just calls my attention to it and waits for me. I love animals. Especially dogs. Boston's are very good natured and love children.
My oldest gdaughter (14) happily helps with weeding, planting, and other yard chores. She always has. The younger one (12) only likes tending to the chickens and dog. So they balance each other out. But they both like the compost and are willing to help out with it. They have since they were toddlers. I've promised the 14 year old a small compost bin to work cold compost at her house. Just a simple wooden frame about 2ftx2ft with a depth of about two feet.
My daughter uses chemicals and is not into flowers or gardens at all. It's just more work for her. Her job is swing shift with a two day turn around, and three hour drive round trip. With two in school she doesn't really have time.
I just realized today that I don't have tomato plants out. With my husband undergoing treatment, the cold temps, and the rain, I hadn't given it a thought. They are usually in the ground for already for a couple of weeks. I plan on picking up a couple tomorrow.
Most of the shrubs have been pruned, flower beds mostly weeded, and sunflowers I sewed in the hugelkulture beds during the fall are already about two feet tall. I have some bare spots I need to reseed and that's all I'll have time for this year.
Doctors appointments and cold weather have brought gardening to a slow crawl this season.
I've got to agree that Daniel puts a lot of time in the yard and garden. The growing season is much shorter where you two live.
Here we usually start the first week of May, earlier some years, and garden as late as mid to late October. I've had green peppers and tomatoes ripening as late as mid November before. But by then they are getting tough.
Comment by Daniel W on May 13, 2017 at 10:40pm

Joan, there is so much uncertainty, we can only do what we think is best.  I have less faith in Land Grant College extension services than you might, but at least they are a start.  My PhD work was sponsored by an Ag department at a land grant institution.  They were very pro industry, pro chemical company, and pro chemical.  They were anti organic and anti vegetarian.  Their grant moneys came from ag industry corporations, and I bet that is true more now than then.  But I imagine they are more reliable than many sources.

If you can get your hands on some, I imagine the starter mix is better than compost for starting seeds.  Also, what is the temperature?  A lot of them like it warm.  I know you are very experienced in that, so I doubt I'm saying anything new.

You are right I work hard in the garden.  I don't know why I do that.  When I was a little boy, I was gardening when other kids were playing.  My first grade school science fair project was plant propagation.  I remember blushing when I put on my poster that plants could be propagated sexually and asexually, because I was Baptist and the word "sexual" was verboten. 

It could be the old seeds.  I had some that didn't come up well.  Peppers and Tomatoes all germinated nicely.  Only about 10% of the four o'clocks seeds germinated.

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 13, 2017 at 9:39pm

Kathy, having grown children presents blessings and curses! Even though my twins were born 7 minutes apart, it as though they are 7 years. My daughter takes after her Dad, my son after me, and my adopted son had a stubborn streak like no one I know. All three gardened with me and didn't like it; too much hard work. Now that I am older, it is too hard for me, as well. I want every seed to count and grow to its full potential, whether child or plant. 

Daniel amazes me with all the hard gardening he does. His photos jump right off the page as a plant nurtured by him. 

Do you have any pets? Do they "Help" you garden? 

Comment by k.h. ky on May 13, 2017 at 9:31pm
Joan I have the same problem with my grown daughter. Even though she was raised with composting and recycling she won't do it at her house.

I had several weigela but they stopped blooming and die after five or six years.
Comment by Joan Denoo on May 13, 2017 at 6:15pm

Daniel, I wasn't able to open the references before, and now have had a chance to open and read them. There appears to be some valid and reliable information in them and i am grateful for these leads. 

Your lilacs looks so pretty, I can almost smell them. I will discuss some options with Laura and see if i can get out from under the exposure to glyphosate and get a few lilacs and Weigela started. I had both in Spokane and loved them. 

We have another night of frost predicted for Sunday night. Still hardening off greenhouse stuff. 

Happy gardening. 

Comment by Joan Denoo on May 13, 2017 at 6:01pm

Thanks, Daniel, for your quick response. I have essentially two questions at this time, and the Googled literature has conflicting instructions. I suppose some of the reports on "short life" of glyphosate in plant life have sponsors from the chemical industry. The information of the chemical staying in the soil may be from gardeners or land-grant colleges. I will pay attention to the sources as I further my search.
My experience this spring is that I sowed many varieties of vegetable seeds in the greenhouse to get a head start on plants that take longer than 50 days to mature. The tomatoes came up correctly while few of my other vegetables and herbs showed sprouting through the ground. Some of my seed was old.
My soil consists of homemade compost from kitchen scraps, horse manure that is now more than two years old, and trimmings from the garden. I replanted twice and now am going to use only seed starter mix from the hay, seed, feed, and grain store and fresh seeds. Perhaps I should go to the local hardware to get the seed starter mix.
My second concern is the research about plants retaining the chemical in their tissues. Are the vegetables safe for small children? We have a gaggle of kids joining me in the garden. I teach them how to wash the vegetables before eating them, but I don't know about the salads and cooked ones I serve at the dinner table. Of course, I wash everything thoroughly.
Our salads are very fresh, light, and especially delicious. Even the little ones eat what I harvest.

Comment by Daniel W on May 13, 2017 at 5:20pm
Comment by Daniel W on May 13, 2017 at 5:17pm

BB I love that cartoon.  It reminds me of some of the "Pearls before Swine" twisted puns and other word play.

Comment by Daniel W on May 13, 2017 at 5:06pm

Lilac "Red Pixie" grows only 4 feet tall. 

Weigela "Minaret"grows 2 to 3 feet tall.  I have problems with deer eating my weigela, even though the books say they don't do that.  My deer are not good readers.  I have a yellow variety, that is about 4 feet tall after maybe 5 years, and the variety Wine and Roses which is a similar size.   Deer were eating that but seem to have stopped.

Comment by Daniel W on May 13, 2017 at 4:54pm

Joan, does Laura use" other herbicides?   I ask because the durability of glyphosate in plant material is unclear, ditto for compost.  for example, "The primary reason crops can be planted or seeded directly into treated areas following application is that glyphosate exhibits essentially no pre-emergent activity even when applied at high rates. This means that while the product may still be in the soil, it does not have the same effect on emergent seedlings as it does on established plants. "

On page 8 of this article, "The half-life of glyphosate ranged from 10 to 27 days in foliage and litter and twice as long in soil".  I admit, I skimmed lightly.  Too much reading for me.

On the other hand,herbicides are a known problem in horse manure.   The article describes the herbicides and the plant crops that can be affected.

I'm not saying I like the idea of using roundup on dandelions, but I sense an area of conflict and maybe it's not her dandelionicide that is causing the problem.

I love your descriptions of the spring phenomena.  So beautiful.

Oh, I was thinking - if you can't grow lilacs because bears hide in them, what about the dwarf Korean lilacs?  Ours our very fragrant and pretty.  Different, but still nice.  The variety "Bloomerang" blooms for months instead of weeks, and is fragrant.  Reaches 4-5 feet tall, but I think they can be pruned shorter.    There is purple and pink

There are also dwarf Weigela now.  The lilacs are deer resistant, and maybe the chickens could hide among them, while they would be too small to provide cover for bears.

I bet a Spokane nursery would have them.


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