Barrack Obama claims to support our Second Amendment rights. Do you believe him?

"I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry"
-Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004
"...just because you have an individual right does not mean the the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."
-2008 Philadelphia primary debate
(If this quote itself does not make you change your mind about Obama, you truly don't know how to vote).


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This election truly was about voting for the Lesser Evil of the two, there's no doubt about that. I just have a very sad dissolution for American society when we start allowing politicians to dictate which Constitutional Rights are OK to limit or legislate away and which should be protected. We can argue which candidate has the better Economic plan and which candidate has the best Medical plan, but there's no 'better or worse' when it comes to Constitutional Rights. You either agree to protect our Constitutional Rights, or you don't. Picking and editing will legislate our rights away.
Very few political candidates would keep the Constitution the way it is? Did I read that right? If I did, I disagree, HIGHLY disagree. In fact, I can't think of ANY candidate, strong candidate, who has openly suggested changing Constitutional Amendments. (Although the 26th Amendment should be repelled-ignorance is the primary reason for asinine laws).
I think the minimum bar of education that stands at 18 is reasonable. It also stands as the point where people are concidered adults and will have to begin thinking about the consequences of their actions, which is helpful when figuring out or at least feeling out the consequences of the actions others would make in your name.

Driving at 16 is reasonable since that's the ages when motor skills and reactions are pretty much on par with an adults, and the 1yr learner's permit makes for a good transition.

If the ultimate goal is to allow anyone who's of sound mind vote as many chances and times in their lives as possible, then I think that a hard limit of 18+yrs is a reasonable compromise.

I was a mere week away from being able to vote in the '04 elections. I likely already knew more about politics, the candidates, and the general geopolitical situation the nation was in than most of my family, if not most adults. At the same time I was okay with not being able to vote (though I would have liked nothing better) since I saw that if I were able to vote at that time, there was a multitude of my peers which would easily be herded toward one candidate or another.

A week older and they would have likely been no better off, but by the time the next election cycle comes a much higher signal/noise ratio of informed and uninformed voters can be had.

I think an IQ test set up in ideal conditions would be great, but such a system would wind up abused to keep people from being able to vote who are informed enough to make a choice that does serve them or society at large. It would also greatly anger those who fell just under whatever arbitrary bar that would be set to vote on.

Maybe some sort of test could be done to allow those under 18 who can prove they'd make an informed decision to vote, while allowing all people to vote after that point. With most people (even in light of this election cycle) not registering and voting for several years after getting the right to though I'm not sure it's a huge deal.
You favor the lowering the voting age to 15 or 16? *God Help Us*....LOL....
TRL groupies in my poling station? o.o
Obama's got a lot more on his plate of much greater importance than gun rights. From what I've read he seems pretty content to let the supreme court and lesser courts handle how the interpretation of those rights play out. He's not been much for gun grabbing, and the laws in most places as they stand are pretty much as tight as they can get without getting unreasonable. I don't think there's enough political will to try to undercut 2nd amendment rights even if he wanted to, and I haven't seen any indication that he does.

The NRA handouts and wallet cards would lead one to think he's personally melting down anything bigger than a .22 on sight. Firearm and ammo sales have been very healthy as of late, and from stores and sites I've been to before and since the election the retailers are doing everything they legally can to stir up a buying-spree since keeping their customers scared but unsuspecting that the seller is pushing sales as much as politics is great for business. Last time I went into my local gun shop they had a cardboard standee of Obama with the NRA's standpoints on him taped to it. I've not gone back since and will take my business to a less hysterical business.
The NRA brings up mixed feelings for me. On the one hand they serve a good purpose in protecting gun rights, but at the same time they are generally led and their membership usually consists of people who also openly discriminate against others or exhibit other unsavory and unreasonably fearful practices. They do serve a useful purpose as a well known and politically strong gun advocacy group, and have done some good work to ensure gun control doesn't get out of hand. I could never join them though as I don't tow their usual line.

Any thoughts? Any non-nutty NRA groups out there?
The only other gun-rights group I consistently interact with and hold a Lifetime Membership with is the GOA, or Gun Owners of America. But if you think the NRA is extremist, the GOA may appear to be the Nazi equivelent of gun-rights issues. They are truly pro-gun rights.

I'm curious though, you mentioned the NRA's membership consists of people who openly discriminate against others. Would you please give me an example or further explanation of this?
It might just be where I live or the places I've been that had many NRA members, but to my personal experience NRA members are more often than not fairly bigoted and fearful of things that change or are different. YMMV I guess, but the NRA itself has put out some pretty fear and hate filled flyers and the like about president Obama.
It must be the local crowd that you're used to, because in all the states I've resided in and attended NRA events, I've NEVER seen any trace of hatred or discrimation against others...although hostility to "others" who don't support the 2nd Amendment as an Individal Right. I do suppose that that could be interpreted as hatred and discrimination then. As a Mexican American, I've never had any problems with them.

In regards to "fear and hate filled flyers", can't the same be said about the opposition to Bush on his re-election or McCain??? Besides, I can't think of one thing in those flyers, pamphlets or postings that is untrue or exaggerated regarding ObSama and his anti-gun position. Seriously. Unless there's something I didn't read or view. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there WAS either one of them in any of the NRA's literature. Much like there are lies and exaggerations in ALL political literature.

But anyway, you should seek membership in a pro-gun outfit, there's much to learn.
I largely agree with you Don, thanks for pointing out the things I was thinking.
To be honest I don't believe most of what Obama says.




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