I have no children and am not in any kind of relationship and I have no prospects.  That said, I would like to find a woman.  The thing is, in the unlikely event I ever have a son, I do not want him to be circumcised at all.  Furthermore, I would have to go to every doctor appointment he has to go to so I could closely supervise the nurese and doctors to make sure nobody ever touches his sex organs. 


For me, not giving any future son I would have a bris is an immediate no-brainer.  In fact when I see videos of brises or circumcisions on YouTube I wish I could bash the moyl or circumcisor's head through the wall. 


I'm more strongly against sex-organ mutilation than most circumcision activists: we don't just let a concenting adult choose to get his legs cut off, and for the same reasons we should not just let a fully concenting adult get his sex-organ(s) mutilated!  Every body part is equally important!


My question is, do you agree that nobody should ever be circumcised? Because to do something just because its a tradition and you think you have to do it because you just have to be an unbroken link in a chain that has been going on for a few thousand years is the most asanine excuse to hurt your son possible.

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I don't think male or female children should have their genitals cut up. (With the exception of some condition that makes it medically necessary, if there is such a situation, which I'm not sure of.) It boils down to mindless tradition now. I actually looked at essays by people defending FGM, saying it's not antisexual, and the defense boiled down to "it's tradition/culture/heritage". That says something pretty negative about your heritage if you do something stupid just b/c it's tradition.


The thing about waiting until someone is adult and can choose it for themselves: the tradition won't live on if people get to choose. And traditions shouldn't live on if they are dependent on coercion.


If an adult actually does want to go through circumcision and they have thought it through, it's not so different from the many other things that adults do to their bodies (piercings, tongue-splitting, plastic surgery, sterilization, sex change...) Although most people would not let a consenting adult chop their legs off, there are people who for whatever reason want to have some limb chopped off or be otherwise handicapped.


What's the deal with wanting to monitor every doctor's visit? Do you think someone will circumcise him in stealth?


I like your position, 99%.  I probably shouldn't complain, and this is not directed specifically at you, but everyone who says something like, "there should be no circumcisions unless medically necessary."  In my impression, people who say such things are mostly against circumcision, except that to some degree, they may be looking for any excuse to circumcise.  It seems as if they think that the defaust thing to do is circumcise, except that you shouldn't do it if there is no reason to do it, so, they are (maybe consciously or subconsciously) searching around just to make sure there is no reason to circumcise that they haven't forgotten about.  The actual chances of a medical need to circumcise (gangreen on the foreskin?) are so remote, that we might as well operate under the assumption that all "medically necessary" circumcisions are actually not necessary and we really cannot trust most doctors when it comes to circumcision.
Hmm, I never had that observation about people saying "medically necessary". I have known a cousin-in-law in India where circumcision is not done, but he apparently had some problem with foreskin and I think he did have it circumcised. Maybe there is a way to avoid circumcision...I'm not too knowledgeable in this area of medicine!
All "medically necessary" circumcisions are aviodable.  You might get brest cancer but since you are a woman, people treat you better and don't cut parts of you off.  Another thing to realize is that religion viruses hate sex.  They have to create obsessive-compulsive rules about sex, considering it durrty and shameful.  Orthodox Judaism hates masturbation, they have the family purity laws, the rules that say you can't touch someone of the opposite sex unless you are both married and even then not at the wrong time of the month or you will committ a terrible sin.  But there are cultures that don't have this guilt cycle.  "Medically necessary" circumcision is actually a symptom of American civil religion's hatred of sex and masturbation.  

I think in case I have a son, I have to stand just a few inches away from the nurses and doctors, with my hands out, ready to interfere at any second, because, you see, I've read that some or many medical professionals are ignorant about the the anatomy of intact males.  I've read that the foreskin and glans are not separate structures until a kid is somewhere between about 7 and 15 years old.  Until the parts are separate, the there is no retractable foreskin.  But doctors might not know this, and they might try to retract the foreskin, and if they do, its like ripping a nail off a finger: there will be bleeding and trauma.  The kid himself should be the only one who ever touches his organs; I wouldn't let a doctor or nurse touch them.  I wouldn't touch them.  The mother better not touch them.   


Anyway, I've been afraid of doctor visits for as long as I can remember.  One day, before school, my mother would tell me I had to visit the doctor after school, and I would freak out and panic for the whole day, and then at the doctors office, I cried and went crazy, and I'm not sure who I hate more, the nurses and doctor, or my mother for taking me, or maybe the government for making my mother take me.  This will not happen in case I have a kid. 

It's a shame that doctors would be that ignorant about anatomy that they don't know what a foreskin looks like...
I think if people want to hack parts off of themselves for religious reasons as adults let them. 

I will not countenance this barbaric act of mutilation being perpetrated upon a child who has no say in the matter whatsoever.  It's is cruel and inhuman.

Sounds good, except that an adult who wants to get his foreskin cut off is just as crazy as an adult who wants to get his legs cut off.  An adult who wants to get circumcised ought to see a psychiatrist and get psyched out and maybe take anti-depresants if necessary, you know, the same treatment as if he wanted any other body part mutilated or cut off.
Do you think the same of adults who want to pierce their genitals, or have them removed in gender reassignment surgery?



Until I came out as an atheist when I was 26 (my birthday is in May and I first skipped the high holidays and really quit Judaism in oct 2009) I had some cognitive dissonance and thought I had to everything orthodox Judaism dictated, but I didn't do most of what I thought I had to do because I didn't want my family or anybody else to think I was crazy.  Let us think of a hypothetical alternate reality to illustrate my intuition that body mutilation is imoral or wrong.  If, even when I was 25, if I had been intact and then had learned that I was intact but that Judaism requires all males ot get circumcised when they turn 26, I might have agreed to get circumcised before I turned 26, and then I might have actually had to get circumcised in order to aviod cripling guilt or shame.  (Guilt in Judaism happens when you feel bad or fear you will feel terrible for not doing what you are "supposed to" do.  Shame in Judaism is when you are afraid other people will be mortified or angry at you for not doing what you are "supposed to" do.)  Then, after I would have gotten circumcised, I might have still quit Judaism and still come to realize how damaging circumcision is.  Then I would have been angry at myself for letting myself be so controlled by the Judaism virus that I actually got myself circumcised, and I might not have been able to live with myself due to my getting circumcised.  Not being able to have sex properly is psychologically just so bad I can't begin to explain it.  Thus getting your genitals pierced or removed or having parts cut off may result in the nightmare situation of someone wishing he had not gotten cirucmcised or had not pierced his parts.  Its sort of why most doctors probably will not cut off the legs of a person who has a severe psychological problem and really wants them cut off. 

Well, I've (sorta) been there.  An ex-Jew who adopted a 2 yr old son from a Catholic country.  He was not circumcised, and my husband and I weren't going to bother withthe hocus-pocus or entertaining the thought of having the surgery my pediatrician offered (and my mother NAGGED me).  Fast forward more than a year, and my poor kid was one of the (very few) who needed a medical circum.   He had recurrent infections, couldn't be toilet trained, and had pain.

I went to specialists, etc.  As a parent, I made the decision for an almost 4 year old that was medical in nature and involved surgery.  It needed to be done.  Sometimes it does. My jewish family almost sat shiva for us not even bothering to at least have a "celebration" after.  Barbaric.  My kid had general anesth., and I should bring him home, give him his meds, and then go downstairs for a bagel and schmear!?

The really sad thing about your story is that stories just like it might inspire other parents to get their perfectly healthy sons circumcised.  Your kid is the only one on the planet who had or will ever have this kind of problem.  I'm sure there must have been nicer treatments (cleaning, stretching exercises, antibiotics or whatever) that would have left your son intact.  Yes, this reply is very insensitive (because it is too brutally honest), and I will politely not reply to or dispute your kvtetch about me.


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