American and Israeli Jews are heading to a confrontation over who should decide who is Jewish in Israel.

A proposed Israeli bill that is supposed to give potential converts more leeway in choosing where - and how - to convert in Israel would also give control over conversions to the Orthodox-dominated Israeli Chief Rabbinate, according to NPR. "Many American Jews
belong to the more liberal branches of Judaism — the Reform or
Conservative movements. In Israel, the Orthodox are in almost total
control of Jewish life."

The bill has caused Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to say it could "tear apart" the Jewish people.

"We do not want to see a schism among the Jews of the United States and Israel," Rabbi Daniel Allen, director of the Association of Reform Zionists of America, told NPR. "This will say to the Jews of the United
States that they don't have a serious place in this country, and that is
unacceptable to us...This would be an affirmative act of the
Knesset [Israel's parliment] to create a second class of Jewery."

Who should decide who is Jewish?

Views: 265

Replies to This Discussion

Not the state, that for sure. Secular Jewish in Israel, which are the majority of the Jewish population of Israel, are suffering a while from the orthodox Jewish parties as well as from their voters. My guess- next elections there will be another party which its goal is to separate religion from state like we had Shinuy before. A party which I intend to vote for.
This bill is absolute a shame to the Jewish state. I never thought I would be ashamed to be Jewish in Israel. luckly for us (or not, depends who you ask) the vote about the legislation of the bill is postpone for 6 months. Maybe we will be saved from the biggest mistake the government of Israel can do? 2 petitions against the bill were also made in the suprim court of Israel, and those 2 were "freezen" as well as the vote for the bill.

Personal ask- please, during those 6 months don't stop pressing the government of Israel about that bill, don't let us sink more and more in the religious forcing.
It has apparently been assured that the bill will not pass voting, although I'm at a "wait-and-see" point on that. Supposedly this is not the first time the bill has made it out of committee... just the first time it's getting any serious attention. Of course, I say "supposedly" because I'm not sure of that, as I couldn't find anything from the past on it, so...

If this happens, BTW, apparently only 10% of world Jews will be officially counted as actual Jews.

The down-fall of Israel won't be caused by Palestinians, even Muslims. It will be caused by these radical Jews.
As far as I know, this bill is new.

90% of the Jewish people in the world were non-Jewish who converted to Judeaism?
Let me remind you- by the Halacha, a person is consider Jewish if:
1. He was born to Jewish mother.
2. He converted to Judeaism by the Halacha.

The bill is about the second option, which basicly denies the reform and conservative conversions and therefor a Jewish who was converted by one of the 2 is not qualified to have Israeli citizenship.
So do you mean to implicitly admit that if you have a son and you are ethnically Jewish, your son will still be Jewish just because the mother is Jewish even if you don't get him circumcised at all?
This is exactly what's implied. If your mother's Jewish, then you're Jewish.
10% of all Jews? How many people is that anyway? I thought the population of Jews is in the millions? I don't see what good can come of this.

Even outside this bill, I come across lots of people who have decreed themselves experts on my ethnicity and who want to lecture me about what I am and what I am not. Lots of people told me "if you don't follow the religion you're not Jewish". Meanwhile my relatives will lecture me if I say I'm anything but Jewish. So either way I get lectured! This is just one reason I don't readily tell people about it.

Perhaps there can be a new scholarly field dedicated to what it is to be Jewish, that way it wouldn't be simply a matter of religious nor secular authority telling people about it.  I'd call it Judiology.

I am an Israeli who lives in community that is 75% da'ti leumi comunity and 25% black hat community. I suspect that the one guy down the road might also be an athiest. So yea, I am a closet athiest. Married within an orthodox family, with grandchildren.


Now, why would I care one iota who gets to make up the rules who can join a religion where I not only don't believe that the Torah is from God, that I don't believe that there is a God?


I don't. In fact, I would prefer that they make it so tough that NOBODY will join. "You're not satisfied with your myth of God, Hey, tough shit, we don't want you either!" It would be best for the world. Looking for a monotheistic religion and can't stomach the pseudo-monotheism of Christianity or the wacky "Let's kill in the name of Allah? Here's an idea: go worship a rock or wake up."


That is my expression of it as an atheist. If I were to put on my "make believe I care" hat, I would express dismay at how the chareidim are controlling who gets to join and can "un-convert" people, and I am encouraged that Shas and other such parties are excluded from the coalition. With a secularlist in chare og the education system, keeping a stranglehold on the Chareidmim in Yeshivot, we might see some other negotiations. But then, I am speaking as one who has no share in the World to Come! :D

According to a few rabbi's and religious Jews I have talked to after coming out as an atheist, when I say that I used to be Jewish and now I am an atheist, they said, nah, you are not an atheist, you are Jewish! Next time I am going to say, who cares or what difference does it mater what you want to label me as? You just need to find fun hobbies and activities to do so you know you are having a nice life given that this is the only life there is, and why worry about or care who your ancestors were or which system of nonsense and obsessive-compulsive behaviors they did and believed in?




Update Your Membership :



Nexus on Social Media:

© 2019   Atheist Nexus. All rights reserved. Admin: The Nexus Group.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service