Hey everybody, I got into a heated argument with a so-called "therapist" or mental health expert. (She's in a humanist group I belong to, not that I need a therapist.) She said that mj was physically addictive. I jumped on this unfounded assertion. Perhaps there is some psychological possibility (anything can be psychologically addictive, video games, cigs, TV, anything) but definitively not physically—there’s no nausea or DTs.

To support her argument she emailed me an article by doctors at UW-Madison. Please click here for my rebuttal which I posted here on A/N.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this. I believe you'll find the article educational and informative, if your into grass.

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Replies to This Discussion

Very good rebuttal was there a response to any of it?

Ironically I was just watching a YouTube clip of a marijuana debate between Ron Paul & Stephen Baldwin...I felt like pulling my hair out listening to the opposition.
Im just completely sick of the scare tactics used to deter the legalization of marijuana. I find it incredible that people can support the sale of alcohol & dismiss/demonize the use of mj...to me it's hypocritical and shows a great lack of knowledge of the facts.
Furthermore the War on Drugs is a scam but that's another topic for another discussion!
There is some evidence that quitting MJ causes slight withdrawal symptoms. However, the fact that it takes some time to "wash out" of your system means these symptoms are very mild, as they're drawn out over several days or weeks. This in contrast to other drugs, which leave the system quite rapidly, exacerbating withdrawal.
Thanks for the input. As far as "wash out" goes, I've been smoking on and off for 50 years and I've never noticed any symptoms for temporarily quitting. As we used to say in hippie days, "We all have different heads."
Our bodies are chemical factories, and each of us make slightly different amounts and types of chemicals. Every one's tolerance to the substances in our environment are bound to differ.
When I was smoking heavily (8-10 fatties a day) I would notice some irritabilityand insommnia if I stopped for more than a few days. Nowadays smoking very little and don't notice any difference between smoking and not smoking. This is of course all anecdotal.

However the point I was trying to makes is that it stays in your system so long there is no sudden withdrawal. Rather the level goes down slowly enough that the receptors in your brain have time to shut down before you start jonesing.
First let me say, I am not sure if MJ is physically addictive or not. I do however find most of the arguements defending MJ absolutely absurd. Hopefully everyone would agree alcohol to be physically addictive. That said, to say "I've been smoking on and off for 50 years and I've never noticed any symptoms for temporarily quitting" is an absurd defense. I have consumed alcohol off and on for most of my life, sometimes very heavily. I have never noticed symptoms of quitting alcohol. I've never even had so much as a hangover.

As for the fight to legalize MJ, again absurd. First, does making anything illegal in this county ever really stop people from using it? No. If people want to use it, they will. Legalizing it will probably only lead to more DUI's as with alcohol. MJ is illegal now and I'm sure nearly everyone who posted or read these posts have used it, including myself. So why do I care if it's legal?

As for your latter post about Grinspoon's book having valid and reliable studies, again absurd. There is a valid scientific study for and against just about everything. For every study you can find pro-MJ, I gaurantee there is one against it.

Is MJ physically addictive, I don't know. I used it several times when I was young and never went back and had no problems. However I also used some more volatile and definately addictive drugs and never needed to use them again either.

For MJ? Against MJ? I don't care either way, just don't argue the point with idiocy.
Ryan, you admit you don’t know if mj is physically addictive, but in the same paragraph call my arguments absurd. I can’t see what is absurd about my personal argument that after long-term usage; I have never been addicted. This seems a plausible point to me. Of course, I can’t generalize from my personal experience, I’m merely stating what is true for me.

Your argument that we shouldn’t legalize mj because people use is anyway, to my view, is weak. What about all the people wasting away in prisons—tens of thousands. Smoking grass is a completely victimless crime and there isn’t even personal health damage that can be documented.

Your point about DUI is valid. I’d love to see studies done at some universities. My opinion is that if everybody smoked, there wouldn’t be such anxiety and macho power trips on the road—speeding and tailgating. Also, when you’re high you have more awareness of the speed you’re going.

As for your latter post about Grinspoon's book having valid and reliable studies, again absurd. There is a valid scientific study for and against just about everything. For every study you can find pro-MJ, I gaurantee there is one against it.”

I’m afraid the second sentence above is absurd. Could you clarify it? Also, if you could show me one study that proves mj causes bodily harm, we can go over if. I don’t think you can.

I’d enjoy discussing the issue with you. Please don’t bring any hard drugs into the debate, as they are hors de champs and not chemically related to mj.
I guessing that you have never been in a jail. I have, and that personal experience adds a higher level of understanding that adds to the 'book' knowledge of the studies done on the psychological damage that occurs to both inmates and guards. Torture happens in various forms in all prisons. My country, Canada, no longer has Judges who give harsh sentences for simple possession, and sentences for large quantities and cultivation varies from province to province. But, as the cops have the discretion to charge you or not, they have a power to force you to do things you don't want to, like threatening your girlfriend with having social services take away her kids, because of a couple of pot plants. This is why I no longer live in the most beautiful province of Canada, and my home for most of my life - The province British Columbia, on our Pacific coast. In the province I now live in, Alberta, we would have been locked up, and her kids put in foster care. While this experience is very mild compared to what would have happened to us south of the 48th parallel, or east of the Rocky Mountains, is it just? Legalization means freedom from state oppression, and an end to the waste of millions of tax dollars for the enforcement of an unjust law.
And then there's the addiction part, and your ignorant statement about studies being able to prove either result. Look at the studies, see who did them, why they were done and how they were done. In my earlier comment on this topic, I pointed out a study in Europe that purported to prove Cannabis is addictive. That study was done for the purpose of proving Cannabis is addictive, which makes it flawed to start with. When doing a scientific study, you start with a hypothesis then follow where the evidence leads. This study started with a belief then found evidence to prove it, but all it really did was show that pot is addictive when mixed with tobacco, as tobacco is addictive mixed with anything. The study was bullshit and proved nothing. Examine all of the studies against pot, and you will find that very few could really be called 'scientific', and that they set out to find that it was harmful, and thus flawed from the beginning. As for your non-addiction to booze, visit an AA meeting some time, or talk to some one (like me) who grew up with a violent alcoholic parent. Find an alcoholic who switched to pot, and ask them what changes it brought to their life.
Mac, I did spent about six hours in the Manattee County Correctional Institution. I was corrected all right. I felt like killing myself out of boredom. I saw myself telling St. Pete at the Pearly Gates of heaven why a committed suicide. "I was bored."

Please explain this to me. "And then there's the addiction part, and your ignorant statement about studies being able to prove either result." Which statement did I make was ignorant? I'm a retired bio teacher and have read a lot of Scientific American in my time. I'd like to know what university study would endorse the idea of mixing pot and tobacco and expecting to come up with viable results. Sounds like Southern Italy or Albania. lol

Did you catch Lester Grinspoon's radio interview? It's very informative on this subject. There are no valid studies proving that pot is physically addictive nor causing any disease or medical problems.
Some thing fucked up. I wasn't replying to your comment. I agree with your comment, but I disagree with Ryan's. Your comments always seem to me to be right on. I totally agree with your reply to Ryan's dumb statements, and just wanted to put my two cents in, as Cannabis legalization is very dear to me.
Do you remember the old Cheech and Chong skit of "Sister Mary Elephant and Sargent. Snidanko? Snidanko is a real cop, with the Vancouver PD, or at least was. In 1983, he was still with the VPD's Combined Law Enforcement Unit (Known as CLEU, it's narcs from the VPD and RCMP. Their newest building, built in 1985, is a built proof glass, camera covered monolith. Very high security.), but gained notoriety in the '60's for sending his teen age daughter out to buy pot, or other drugs, and for using the pail of water trick to get information from drug users (you know - stick their head in a pail of water until they half drown.). No one should be tortured or put in jail for a plant.
Thanks for the clarification. I knew something was wrong. I wrote a funny short story describing my night in jail, if you'd care to read it. I'll put it on my blog and send you the website. Mirrorreversal.blogspot.com, but give me time to post it.

The above sounds like waterboarding. These people are misguided. They'll deprogram pretty fast once they see they're in the minority. They have a herd mentality and they're hypocrites. They need to smoke a good joint and get laid.

Thanks for the comments. I'll keep your posted.
LOL ! Dam straight! :}




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