Michigan Atheists

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Michigan Atheists

Group for atheists in Michigan... the only state shaped like a giant mitten.

Location: michigan
Members: 156
Latest Activity: Feb 5

Discussion Forum

anyone around the madison heights,warren royal oak area?

Started by michael piusinski. Last reply by Michael Pianko Jul 16, 2014. 2 Replies

Cadillac/Manistee/T.C. Area

Started by Lorene K Johnson. Last reply by Lorene K Johnson Jul 8, 2014. 3 Replies

Portage / Kalamazoo

Started by Brandon Captain. Last reply by Chad Horvath Mar 13, 2012. 1 Reply

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Comment by Pansy on October 29, 2009 at 2:24pm
i just had a thought, reading the last few posts..... do gays look at straight people the way atheists look at xians? ........meaning, do gay people think straight people are freaks and assume all sorts of bad things about them and their lives, based on what they've heard from others......

i realize this is not the proper forum for this question, but, maybe eric could answer that......i love gay guys, i think they're hilarious. in a good way, i mean, not degrading. every one i've ever met is so funny and sensative and compassionate.
Comment by TinaFCD on October 29, 2009 at 2:14pm
Holy shi$! Can I swear here? :)
If you go back and read my comment, I was trying to be funny, but not. I don't really think there should be a label for ANY of us. I am totally for what Eric posted. I have many family members that are gay or Bi.
I was just being funny, seriously!
So sorry to cause a feud or disagreement here. So sorry, I love this site.
I am all for gay rights, I hope that one day EVERYONE will be able to marry, no matter if it's the opposite sex.
Again, sorry Eric, to you especially!
Comment by Eric on October 29, 2009 at 1:04pm
Habman, you said, "Too often the LGBT community pulls away from society as a whole, then wonders why they are not included."

No, in fact, it's the other way around, in order to get a community's own issues better addressed sometimes it's much better to pull away from other groups until these issues are resolved. Only when no issues remain to be addressed will such groups cease to exist. This isn't a phenomenon particular to the LGBT community.
Comment by Eric on October 29, 2009 at 12:54pm
Speaking of having straight people in gay organizations, in addition to John D's example of the Gay/Straight Alliance in high schools, I might as well mention that the Jewish Gay Network of Michigan founders included at least one straight woman. So gay groups do include straight folks. Before JGN was founded, this woman was also highly involved in working with Jews who had HIV and AIDS, which brought her into contact with many Jewish gays. So she ended up finding herself very involved in the Jewish gay community, even though she is very much straight. I've also met her husband, who came to at least one of the events sponsored by JGN.
Comment by Eric on October 29, 2009 at 12:36pm
I also noticed more recently that there is a free booklet that describes the coming out process for queers coming out of the closet. On one page is a complete list of gay religious organizations. The list was extremely comprehensive, except that I noticed they left out any group for atheists coming out of the closet to go to. They could easily have mentioned a group such as Gay and Lesbian Atheists and Humanists (GALAH), but didn't. So that is one issue that a group like the Gay Atheist Meetup could easily handle. And again, it is because I am gay that I was likely to come across such a booklet. Straight atheists would not catch this omission as easily because they would be less likely to look at such a booklet, they are not the intended audience of such a booklet. And no offense, but a gay atheist group is likely to work more quickly to rectify that situation than an atheist group that is likely to be mostly straight because it's more personal to gay atheists.
Comment by Habman on October 29, 2009 at 12:25pm
I was just trying to show him how sometimes groups themselves create the resentment they rail against, and maybe I didn't do this well.

I have no interest in starting any group that is based on labels especially on something a narrow in focus as to who one wishes to take to bed.

Hell I have talked sex with my gay friends many times, only disagreement is on who not so much want. lol
As for your wish to get along, that is exactly what I was trying to point out. Too often the LGBT community pulls away from society as a whole, then wonders why they are not included.

I was at the same sex wedding of my sister in law a few years ago where there was a group of lesbians saying the most ignorant, vicious things about straight people and then wondering why they are not accepted in society.

I broke into their conversation and repeated back what they had said substituting the word "negro" for each instance of "hetero" and "breeder" they used. I then asked why wouldn't be popular at the NAACP meeting? They got the point, yes they are discriminated against but having a chip on your shoulder and lumping everyone into a group based on their skin color, or sexual orientation or anything else is just plain ignorant.

We are all discriminated against in one way or another and we need to get the hell past that if we wish to become better people.
Comment by Eric on October 29, 2009 at 12:24pm
Gays want to make friends with other gays too, not only straights, but they're harder to find. Most gays are theists. So if I wanted to find gay friends who were nontheists, a gay atheist group would be a good place to start. Also, if a gay atheist wants to find other gay atheists for possible dating, a gay atheist group is also a good place to start.

Also, gay atheists are likely to have links to gay organizations that might not be aware they are doing things offensive to atheists, or not realize they need to reach out to atheists too. Straight atheists are less likely to be in such organizations.

So, for example, for a while I was involved with the Jewish Gay Network of Michigan. I grew up in Humanistic Judaism, which began in Farmington Hills, MI and was founded by a gay atheist rabbi. One day I noticed that JGN had placed a theistic quote on their website. I spoke up and said JGN needs to understand there are Jews out there who are ethnic/cultural Jews, not religious Jews. As a result of my speaking up, JGN took down that quote and later put up a different quote on their website that was nontheistic.

And by the way, the Gay Atheist Meetup is also open to straights too. I notice that the full name of the group on the website is actually either "Gay/Lesbian Atheist & Friends" or "LGBT Atheist & Friends" - I see both names there on the Meetup.com website. The name within the URL is truncated so don't be misled by how the name appears within the URL. I should have given the full name, I apologize. I'm not the host of the group and I have yet to attend one of their meetings, I just joined last week myself, but then several days later I joined Atheist Nexus, and I noticed there was no mention of the group anywhere on Atheist Nexus so I mentioned this group in both the Michigan Atheists group and the Gay Atheists group.

Gay atheist groups can also function to pull in new folks and get them involved in atheistic issues who otherwise wouldn't normally get involved with any group that is perceived by them to be straight.

Atheistic issues otherwise don't have any inherent sexual orientation.
Comment by Habman on October 29, 2009 at 11:47am
I agree the LGBT people face discrimination, as do Bi folks at times from the Gay and Lesbian folks, and transgendered folks from everyone.

So why foster that with another group is my main question. You said flat out that a straight meetup would raise your suspicion, why should it? Maybe they just want to be with others that share the same orientation, isn't that just the same reasoning you agree with for a LGBT or the Existentialist group? This is where I see a major disconnect in logic. Of course the straight folks must want to discriminate against the LGBT community because all straight want to suppress the rights of anyone with a diferent sexual preference.

You have just illustrated my point perfectly.

I also wish you good luck Eric, just remember this in the future.
Comment by Habman on October 29, 2009 at 9:27am
Just trying to make a point John and demonstrate what causes distrust and tribalism in society as a whole.

The theists use labels to separate and condemn groups of people, and we all know the effect. So should we as non-theists do the same thing? Would such a group be considered Hethrophobic?

I have just lived too long listening to one group scream about another group excluding them that I find this to be a double standard and double standards drive wedges between people.

Do I have a problem with the LGBT community, not at all. I believe every person should be afforded their basic rights, and who you choose to sleep with shouldn't negate that, nothing short of a crime against another should. I have fought long and hard for this belief.

But if I would have posted a call for a straight group you know just as well as I do I would have been tarred and feathered, labeled a homophobe and subjected to all kinds of abuse.

We need to come together as a community, not water down our efforts.
Comment by Habman on October 29, 2009 at 8:48am
Well Tina,

Should we start a "straight" Meetup group?

That one hit me the wrong way too. The LGBT community wants to be excepted and not discriminated against, but they don't want "breeders" at their meetups?

If I started a meetup group and said "if you are straight...", I can even begin to imagine the things I would be called and the rants I would have to endure.

I would really like to know how a gay atheist is any different from a straight one? Eric could you explain that?
 

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